Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (1 of 5), Read 28 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Saturday, November 17, 2001 08:47 AM
This one deserves it's own thread. I'm not done reading it yet
but far enough into it to realize this is not just something you
read. This is fiction you experience. This is one of the best
pieces of literature I have ever read.
It leaves me stunned. That's the best word I can think of to
describe my reaction.
Anne, how far are you in The Bear?
Beej
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (2 of 5), Read 17 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Anne Wilfong anne.wilfong@gte.net
Date:
Saturday, November 17, 2001 06:26 PM
I'm about a third through, I think, Beej. I'm in Memphis, where
Isaac and Boon have gone for some liquor. This is an incredible
piece of writing and I can just feel the undercurrent of suspense
and heartache building up.
Anne
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (3 of 5), Read 10 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Sunday, November 18, 2001 10:32 PM
Anne, I'm just about the begin the tough part of 'The Bear'..have
my hi-liters in hand. I've been aching to get to it but its been
absurdly busy around here lately and I just haven't had the time
to sit and read for the last couple of days..
I have a feeling I'm going to need all the help I can get from
here on out with this one.
Beej
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (4 of 5), Read 10 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Sunday, November 18, 2001 10:42 PM
The Bear ate me alive.
Ruth
"I don't have a favorite song. I only have the song I'm singing
today" Berenice Reagon
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (5 of 5), Read 11 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Sunday, November 18, 2001 11:36 PM
Ruth, I love what I've read so far in The Bear. Even tho Lion's
story was covered in a few pages, I felt like crying when he
died...and then when I figured out it was Sam Parent's body on
that platform by Lion's grave, I had to set the book aside
because it affected me so deeply.
But, I know the section that ate you alive is yet to come. I'm
counting on that hi-liter business to help me sort it out.
Beej
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (6 of 8), Read 12 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Anne Wilfong anne.wilfong@gte.net
Date:
Monday, November 19, 2001 11:53 PM
I finished BEAR last night. Hell of a thing to do before
trying to sleep.
There is just so much meat in this I barely know where to
begin. I'm in the process of formulating my idea of the
scope of this story, and I'm not sure if the words will even
come.
I am so incredibly struck by Faulkner's sense of place in
this story. The place Southerners know the way salmon
know where to go each year. The imprint of who they are
in relation to their kin, their friends, their land, their
history. I just don't think any other region in the country
has the same feeling. If so, then no other author has
expressed it for them as Faulkner has for Southerners.
His words, spoken through Isaac, in the second half of the
story put me through the gamut of emotions. From the
"ah ha!" to the "hmmm" to the "what the hell??" I had no
need for a highlighter. I could easily tell when Macaslin
spoke or Isaac spoke.
When this headache of mine clears and I have a chance to
reread a few passages, I can be more coherent. This story
just blew me away. Sam's death at the time of Old Ben's
death did not surprise me--he had orchestrated it--but it
still shook me to my core.
Anne
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (7 of 8), Read 8 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Tuesday, November 20, 2001 09:32 AM
This becomes a bit important now:
Ode on a Grecian Urn
by John Keats
THOU still unravish'd bride of quietness,
Thou foster-child of Silence and slow Time,
Sylvan historian, who canst thus express
A flowery tale more sweetly than our rhyme:
What leaf-fringed legend haunts about thy shape
Of deities or mortals, or of both,
In Tempe or the dales of Arcady?
What men or gods are these? What maidens loth?
What mad pursuit? What struggle to escape?
What pipes and timbrels? What wild ecstasy?
Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard
Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft pipes, play on;
Not to the sensual ear, but, more endear'd,
Pipe to the spirit ditties of no tone:
Fair youth, beneath the trees, thou canst not leave
Thy song, nor ever can those trees be bare;
Bold Lover, never, never canst thou kiss,
Though winning near the goal—yet, do not grieve;
She cannot fade, though thou hast not thy bliss,
For ever wilt thou love, and she be fair!
Ah, happy, happy boughs! that cannot shed
Your leaves, nor ever bid the Spring adieu;
And, happy melodist, unwearièd,
For ever piping songs for ever new;
More happy love! more happy, happy love! 25
For ever warm and still to be enjoy'd,
For ever panting, and for ever young;
All breathing human passion far above,
That leaves a heart high-sorrowful and cloy'd,
A burning forehead, and a parching tongue.
Who are these coming to the sacrifice?
To what green altar, O mysterious priest,
Lead'st thou that heifer lowing at the skies,
And all her silken flanks with garlands drest?
What little town by river or sea-shore,
Or mountain-built with peaceful citadel,
Is emptied of its folk, this pious morn?
And, little town, thy streets for evermore
Will silent be; and not a soul, to tell
Why thou art desolate, can e'er return.
O Attic shape! fair attitude! with brede
Of marble men and maidens overwrought,
With forest branches and the trodden weed;
Thou, silent form! dost tease us out of thought
As doth eternity: Cold Pastoral!
When old age shall this generation waste,
Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe
Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou say'st,
'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'
Steve
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (8 of 8), Read 8 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Tuesday, November 20, 2001 09:37 AM
I agree with your observations about Sam's death very
much, Anne. This is a wonderful passage wherein Ike
sizes up the situation:
He was old. He had no children, no people, none of his blood
anywhere above earth that he would ever meet again. And
even if he were to, he could not have touched it, spoken to it,
because for seventy years now he had had to be a negro. It
was almost over now and he was glad.
Steve
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (9 of 15), Read 31 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, November 20, 2001 08:19 PM
I'll tell you who I thought was one hell of a man in The
Bear...Thucydus, Eunice's husband.
Lucius left Thucydus 10 acres in his Will as a 'peace'
offering for inadvertently causing the deaths of Thucydus'
wife and her daughter, Tomasina. Thucydus refused the
land. He was also left $200. He refused this, too.
He was manumitted...freed.. because of all that happened,
and yet it was all that happened that really enslaved him
(he could never be free so long as memory lasted.)
But, 'he needed to go and never return.' He needed that
$200 but rather take it and leave, he stayed and worked it
out in the fields.
It took four years to attain what could have been his
through Lucius' Will. And in 1841, Thucydus had earned
that $200 and moved to Jefferson, where he became a
blacksmith.
This was one hell of a man. His wife and daughter, though
slaves, were not going to be bought by 10 acres and
$200. He could have simply taken that money and been rid
of these people, but then he would have been enslaved to
them for the remainder of his life.
I think a man who has principles this high, is always free.
Beej
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (10 of 15), Read 27 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, November 20, 2001 09:09 PM
I think Lucius was in love with the slave, Eunice.
Lucius, 'who never went anywhere', travelled 300 miles to
New Orleans to purchase Eunice. He would not have done
this simply to provide a wife for a slave.
Then I read this:
'Eunice walked into 'the icy creek, on that Christmas day
SIX MONTHS BEFORE HER DAUGHTER'S AND HER
LOVER'S....HER FIRST LOVER'S...CHILD WAS BORN'
Eunice, 'griefless, ceremonial, in formal and succinct
repudiation of grief and despair, who had already had to
repudiate belief and hope.'
Eunice did not kill herself because her daughter died, as I
previously believed. She killed herself BEFORE her
daughter died..and I don't think it was because Tomasina
was pregnant as a result of incest.
I think she killed herself because she lost Lucius to her
daughter.
Beej
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (11 of 15), Read 19 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Anne Wilfong anne.wilfong@gte.net
Date:
Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:57 PM
Steve,
It's ironic that you posted the Yeats poem. I learned (and
loved) that work at the hands of the same English teacher
who instilled a fear of Faulkner in me. And now I'm learning
and loving Faulkner.
The ending of The Bear has me buffaloed. Boon sitting on
the ground beating on his rifle parts, under the gum tree
full of squirrels. "Get out of here! Don't touch them! Don't
touch a one of them!They're mine!" And that's it. Finished.
Please tell me what I missed--or did I miss nothing? Ike
had been to Sam's and the bear's graves; Boon, who was
never a hunter worth a damn, is determined to claim the
squirrels?
Anne
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (12 of 15), Read 19 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:19 PM
My God, am I ever dense!...had no idea of the significance
of 'Ode To A Grecian Urn' until it swooshed down into my
brain just this minute...those highlighted stanzas are what
Caslin read to Ike! and that ties right back to what Caslin
said earlier concerning the land and all..
'..if truth is one thing to me and another thing to you, how
will we choose which is truth? You don't need to choose. The
heart already knows.'
Beej
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (13 of 15), Read 11 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:03 AM
Anne, note that it's Keats. Just one letter difference but a
lot of difference otherwise.
The closing scene with Boon is interesting. All I see there
is a kind of comic comment by Faulkner on the idea that a
man can own the land. It is ridiculous for Boon to claim
those squirrels are his. But is it not just as ridiculous for
any man to claim ownership of a rectangle of land? When
one looks at it the way Faulkner is here?
As far as "Ode on a Grecian Urn" is concerned, Faulkner
refers to it in other books, too. It is of some immense
significance for our interpretation of this story, I'm sure,
but I am the first to admit that after much thought, I
haven't got it yet. Maybe someday before I die. Or maybe
one has to be in the immediate process of dying--in
extremis--to get it.
One has this man and woman frozen forever in this pose
on the Grecian urn. An unravished bride. And we. . .and
Ike. . .are supposed to derive some metaphysical comfort
from that. But beyond that. . . ?
I'll post the damn thing over in the poetry conference to
see whether I might get some help there.
Steve
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (14 of 15), Read 10 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Anne Wilfong anne.wilfong@gte.net
Date:
Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:28 AM
Beej,
I'm with you. When I read Ike's words, my brain knew I'd
heard them many times before. But in keeping up with the
flow and all the other huge thoughts in this section, I
missed that these were Keats' (got it right this time,
Steve!) words.
All this is a bit overpowering for me. I appreciate
everyone's help in guiding me through my readings.
Anne
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (15 of 15), Read 5 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:51 AM
I agree in spades with your "overpowering" comment,
Anne. Obviously, this story is not for everyone, but there
are those of us who are, for some reason or another, very
vulnerable to it. Wonderful to discuss it with those types.
I swear, the first part is the greatest hunting story I have
ever read, but it so much, much more than that. (Dare I
say that I consider Moby Dick a pretty good hunting story,
too?) We're going to shed more light on it here, but we will
never get to the bottom of it, I am convinced.
Steve
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (16 of 19), Read 15 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Wednesday, November 21, 2001 02:30 PM
Anne, you know what? This is a first reading for me and
I'm getting a lot out of it. I think as I re-read it thru the
years I'll pick up on more and more.
So we miss things here and there..I think you and I are
doing really great to get as much as we are out of a first
reading of this.
Beej
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (17 of 19), Read 10 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Anne Wilfong anne.wilfong@gte.net
Date:
Wednesday, November 21, 2001 07:36 PM
Beej,
Have you finished the book yet? The final story just
warmed my heart. A nice way to start the holiday
weekend.
Now, it's time to open a bottle of my favorite big red,
hardy old vine zin (not the pink stuff!), read the intro to
THE PORTABLE FAULKNER, watch the Duke game, and get
ready for the prodigal son to arrive.
Anne
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (18 of 19), Read 9 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Wednesday, November 21, 2001 09:42 PM
Anne, I'm almost done!...the kids have been out of school,
and with company and holiday doings, my reading has
been catch-as-catch-can.
But I did pick up The Portable Faulkner..and looking
forward to that.
Beej
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (19 of 19), Read 4 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Felix Miller felix3rd@bellsouth.net
Date:
Friday, November 23, 2001 08:13 AM
Hello, all,
Here I am, somewhat late to all this Faulkner discussion,
which I have enjoyed reading so much. I envy those of
you who have read "The Bear" for the first time. I still
remember my first read of it, in tenth grade. Whoa!
Steve, thanks for quoting "Grecian Urn" in its entirety. As I
remarked somewhere else, WF was obviously much taken
with this poem. One way (of many) to approach "The
Bear" (and all of GDM, for that matter) is as Faulkner's
ode on a Yoknapatawphan urn. The characters, the
animals, the very woods are all caught in a frieze of
words, instead of marble.
Ike's coming of age in this part of GDM is set against an
elegaic sense of the passing of real wilderness. The deep
woods in which the action of "The Bear" takes place have
already been bargained away to timber interests, as we
see in the end of the book. Ike is inducted, you might say,
into a dying brotherhood. And Sam Fathers, the essence
of this brotherhood, dies at the climatic moment of the
hunt. Ike McCaslin as an old man must travel far to the
south for hunting big woods.
The key moment of Ike's acceptance of life as a hunter is
his encounter with the bear, all by himself. This can only
occur once Ike has set both his watch and compass on
the stump, and goes to seek the bear shriven of all
technology.
This is a great book and story, and I will be back to
comment more.
O the Book/ Of the Dead, and the dead bright sun on the
page/ Where the team stands ready to explode/ In all
directions with Time...
Felix Miller
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (20 of 32), Read 17 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Friday, November 23, 2001 12:37 PM
Excellent, Felix. Certainly, Ike and the bear in their encounter
there (when Ike is so close he can see the tick on its leg) are
frozen forever just as is that couple on the urn.
Steve
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (21 of 32), Read 16 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Friday, November 23, 2001 01:27 PM
Anne, did it seem as fitting to you as it did to me that the title
story at the end focused on old Mollie?
Faulkner does these old black women with such obvious
affection. . .and admiration, from my point of view.
Steve
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (22 of 32), Read 16 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Anne Wilfong anne.wilfong@gte.net
Date:
Friday, November 23, 2001 01:50 PM
Steve,
That's an issue I've been grappling with and need to read more
of Faulkner to get a really good feeling for. To me, the whites
are more the scallywags and the mean-tempered ones, and the
blacks are seen in a light of fondness, despite any character
flaws. And the black women are treated gently.
In the first few pages of the intro in "THE PORTABLE FAULKNER",
the author alludes to Faulkner's early years, when his
interactions with the black maids and household help left a
seemingly indelible imprint on him. I think this is widely reflected
in his stories.
Anne
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (23 of 32), Read 24 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Friday, November 23, 2001 02:44 PM
Anne, this has been fun, hasn't it? And as a Faulkner newcomer
I've learned so much from those who know and understand his
works far more than I ever will.
Thank you to all who made Faulkner a little less intimidating for
me. And, tho at times I came to wrong conclusions and made
some pretty off the wall statements, I enjoyed it tremendously.
Beej
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (24 of 32), Read 20 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Felix Miller felix3rd@bellsouth.net
Date:
Friday, November 23, 2001 07:35 PM
Anne said: ...the author alludes to Faulkner's early years, when
his interactions with the black maids and household help left a
seemingly indelible imprint on him.
It is worth noting that Faulkner delivered the eulogy for Caroline
Barr, "Aunt Callie" to him and his family, and her funeral was
held from Rowan Oak, Faulkner's house. She is often cited as a
prototype of Dilsey, in The Sound and the Fury. Faulkner also
dedicated one of his books to her, it may be Go Down, Moses.
My copy of GDM has wandered on without me, so someone else
can check.
O the Book/ Of the Dead, and the dead bright sun on the page/
Where the team stands ready to explode/ In all directions with
Time...
Felix Miller
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (25 of 32), Read 23 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Anne Wilfong anne.wilfong@gte.net
Date:
Friday, November 23, 2001 07:53 PM
Beej,
I'm hoping more people will give Faulkner a try if they haven't
yet. Instead of being intimidated (as I assumed I would be) I've
been fascinated, excited, and more than occasionally
perplexed--and it's been wonderful.
Don't get bogged down in that "wrong conclusion" thing. The
heck with conclusions. Keep reading and thinking, like you do so
well, and it'll come eventually. At least, that's what I'm hoping
for myself!
What do we read next?
Anne
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (26 of 32), Read 24 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Saturday, November 24, 2001 05:44 PM
I know that everyone has other reading projects, Anne. As I
suggested before, at some point we need to do two or three
Faulkner short stories.
As far as novels are concerned, I have harped on those big six,
but several of the "lesser" novels are easier reads and very,
very entertaining. Of those my own personal favorite is The
Unvanquished, which features an intrepid little grandma who
feeds her family by defrauding the Union Army in Mississippi.
Great little novel.
Steve
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (27 of 32), Read 15 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Saturday, November 24, 2001 09:52 PM
Anne, I'm not bogged down in wrong conclusions! I probably
should be, but I'm not!
I've become fascinated with this author, but needed to veer off
into an easier author for a bit, is all.
But, I'm looking forward to more Faulkner..I'm especially eager
to learn about the Sutpens.
Beej
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (28 of 32), Read 17 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Anne Wilfong anne.wilfong@gte.net
Date:
Sunday, November 25, 2001 12:50 AM
I need to focus on some other reading for a week or so, but who
knows if that will really happen.
Steve, I know you've mentioned the "big 6" novels, but I was
wondering if it would be better to read a series chronologically?
Or does it matter? Like reading SARTORIS before taking on THE
SOUND AND THE FURY?
I guess there's no "right" way. But which short stories did you
have in mind? I can see if they're in my library Wednesday (my
day off.)
Anne
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (29 of 32), Read 16 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Sunday, November 25, 2001 08:38 AM
Anne, speaking of temporarily veering away from Faulkner's
novels, I looked up some of his poetry, thinking it would be
interesting to discuss a few, but I thought they were pretty
horrid so didn't bother posting them.
Beej
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (30 of 32), Read 14 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Anne Wilfong anne.wilfong@gte.net
Date:
Sunday, November 25, 2001 01:13 PM
Apparently you're not the only one who has had that reaction to
his poetry, Beej. He dropped poetry once he found his niche in
writing novels. There's enough poetry to be found in those, I'd
say.
Anne
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (31 of 32), Read 19 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Sunday, November 25, 2001 02:17 PM
At some point or another, one ought to read his most famous
short story, "A Rose for Emily." However, I like another story
called "Barn Burning," a barn burning being a traditional rural
means of revenge. Also, I find a story called "Spotted Horses" to
be very funny. One of the Snopes clan brings a batch of
perfectly wild, unbreakable Texas horses into Yoknapatawpha
County, and auctions them off. Havoc and destruction follow. My
partiality for these two may be because of my rural childhood.
Lastly, another that I find entertaining every time is "Turnabout,"
the story of a crew member of a British torpedo boat and a crew
member of an American bomber who trade rides for the thrill of
it.
Faulkner was like Fitzgerald in the sense that he wrote short
stories in a desperate attempt to make money while he wrote
novels. Many of these short stories were then later incorporated
into novels.
Steve
Topic:
The Bear; Wm. Faulkner (32 of 32), Read 20 times
Conf:
Constant Reader
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Sunday, November 25, 2001 03:54 PM
I read a Faulkner quote on a site I found where an elderly
woman read a complicated passage to Faulkner from one of his
books and asked him why he wrote stuff like that.
"For money." he replied.
Anne, for me to know a poem is horrid, its got to be REAL bad.
I'll post one of his if I can find it again.
Here is a link to A Rose For Emily:
http://www.online-library.org/fictions/emily.html
I don't know if this is an abridged version or not.
Beej