To millions of Americans, Rabbit Angstrom is like a member of the family. They have followed
him through RABBIT RUN, RABBIT REDUX and RABBIT IS RICH. We meet him for the first time
in this novel, when he is 22, and a salesman in the local department store. Married to the
second best sweetheart of his high school years, he is the father of a preschool son and
husband to an alcoholic wife. The unrelieved squalor and tragedy of their lives remind us that
there are such people, and that salvation, after all, is a personal undertaking.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (1 of 109), Read 86 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 01:04 PM
I picked this up for $2, sat on the porch to read it, and
whipped through the first 75 pages without a break, and
promptly requested Rabbit Is Rich, Rabbit Redux and Rabbit
At Rest from the library.
For those who are unfamiliar with these books, they are
the story of Harry (Rabbit) Angstrom, ex-basketball hero,
and professional demonstrator of the Magic Peel Kitchen
Peeler. He's married to Janice who, at the beginning of this
book, is pregnant with their second child. He is not quite
certain how he came to find himself where he is in life, with
a pregnant wife whose "little mouth hangs open in a dumb
slot."
To quote a review by Angus Wilson:
"(Rabbit, Run)..is sexy, in bad taste, violent, and basically
cynical. And good luck to it."
An incredibly good book..
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (2 of 109), Read 82 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 01:20 PM
This book is not for those who are put off by extreme
tackiness. Rabbit's thoughts are bizarre.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
EXTREME TACKINESS ALERT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For example; he picks up a hooker and refers to her
diaphram as her rubber kidney.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (3 of 109), Read 72 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 02:11 PM
Is this the first book in the series? Steve and I and some
others read the first book together a year or two ago, and I
always intended to get back to the series but never did.
Ruth
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (4 of 109), Read 76 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 02:49 PM
Boy,,I sure missed out on some goood discussions.
Yes, Ruth, this is the first. Rabbit Redux is the second, I
believe..its the one I'm going to read next, at any rate. I'll
probably start it tonight.
I'm having a GREAT time here with Rabbit.
(Do men REALLY think like this? I'm amazed!)
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (5 of 109), Read 82 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 02:50 PM
Ah, Beej, you're sooooooo young. Fifties men definitely
thought like that.
Ruth
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (6 of 109), Read 94 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 02:57 PM
Beej: I hope Mr. Warbasse will show up in this thread
eventually, but for now let me say that I consider Updike's
RABBIT series an absolutely towering achievement in
American fiction.
Ruth is right: 1950s men definitely thought and acted like
that, and those of us 1960s and 1970s guys such as myself
who didn't think and act like that caught the double
whammy: we were (a)ostracized by our peers, and
(b)demonized anyhow by the new consciousness that the
feminist movement helped bring about.
But, don't get me started.{G} I'm very glad you're reading
Updike. Most of the female readers I know say they don't
like Updike or can't "get into" him. Fair enough, but I think
it's their loss when it comes to seeing the "bigger picture"
of gender relations in a historical context and the kinds of
role models that both genders were saddled with.
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (7 of 109), Read 94 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 03:11 PM
Yes, Beej. Here's where Theresa and I part company. I like
Updike.
Hmmm. "I like Updike." Sounds like a bumper sticker,
doesn't it?
Ruth
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (8 of 109), Read 94 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 03:18 PM
So do I, Ruth..I think this book is absolutely brilliant.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (9 of 109), Read 100 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 03:15 PM
I'm right here, Dale.
Beej, I come to this from a little different perspective than
Dale, who is undoubtedly the nicest damned male human
being I know. I think exactly like Harry Angstrom does and
always have with the one major exception of his politics. In
other words, yes, tacky. As a result, this series has been a
great big whoop for me through my life.
Do drive on. You are in for some great adventures, including
wife-swapping, sex with a daughter-in-law, and a whole
bunch of other fun stuff. I only own two of the four, but I
will score copies of the other two if we need to get right
down to textual analysis.
Don't forget Ruth (not our Ruth, the Ruth in the book--the
one he shacks up with while separated from Janice). She
remains an important character throughout this series and
into the novella sequel recently published.
Steve
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (10 of 109), Read 99 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 03:23 PM
Its the tackiness that makes this book so delightful..
And I hope y'all do score the rest of them soon, because
I'm whipping though these and they're just too good not to
discuss ..
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (11 of 109), Read 102 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 03:28 PM
Novella sequel? What novella sequel?
oh yes..Dale, ostracized and demonized? you dealt with a
lot of crap in order to live up to your standards. You're a
good man. Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (12 of 109), Read 95 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Lee Beech (lee.beech@sympatico.ca)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 05:07 PM
For some reason, I always avoided Updike -- maybe
because I am an intellectual snob, and felt that he couldn't
measure up to my stringent standards!
Last year, my live book club decided we needed to expand
our horizons, so we included Rabbit, Run on our list. To our
amazement, we loved it, and after the discussion the library
was swamped with requests for others in the series.
I even read his most recent novel, the one which is the
"pre-quel" to Hamlet, and loved it.
Just goes to show that prejudices are not always based in
fact!
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (13 of 109), Read 96 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Gail Singer (gailsinger_gross@hotmail.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 07:12 PM
thanks LEE..
i will rethink RABBIT, RUN ...for our book group as we never
did read any of his selections..
gail...a passionate reader always finding good reads from
our CR's..!
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (14 of 109), Read 95 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 07:30 PM
I'm finding that the more obnoxious Rabbit is, especially in
his views/words/actions toward women, the funnier he
becomes and the more I like him.
One of the things that makes this character soooo funny, I
think, is that his high opinion of himself borders on the
absurd..Harry walks down the street singing a song..and
what song does he sing?? "I'm Just Wild About Harry.."
There is a small paragraph, however, that might explain his
behavior in part..
"I once played a game (basketball) real well. I really did.
And after you're first rate at something, no matter what, it
kind of takes the kick out of being second rate. And that
little thing Janice and I had going, boy, it was really second
rate."
The problem is, his marriage is not the only second rate
thing in his life..so far it seems most everything in his life is
second rate..even his car and his bedroom mirror are
hand-me-downs.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (15 of 109), Read 98 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 08:01 PM
Beej: Yes, I think that the reason Rabbit's self-justifications
are at once so ludicrous and endearing is that they're only
a slightly exaggerated version of our own--one of the
attractions of all great literature, I think.
Keep in mind that this guy's name is really "Harry
Angstrom" a nerd name if there ever was one; "Rabbit"
was his honorific upon becoming a high school basketball
star. Turns out, the only thing Harry/Rabbit knows how to
do is play basketball, and yet he didn't quite make the cut
to the pro leagues.
As a result, I think his life is a parable of all the people we
know who "peaked early" in high school: the beauty
queens and cheerleaders, as equally as the jocks. Updike is
a "nerd" in that respect, and I think it's very ironic that he's
considered a "guy's writer" when his triumph is that he
shows--in the RABBIT series, most of all (exclusively?)--his
former tormentors in all their glory, sadness, and humanity.
But, I'm sure I can't view all of this with total objectivity.
(PS: Hey, Steve! I'm so glad you joined this thread. I'm very
honored by your endorsement of me as a kind and
compassionate male. I just hope one of my ex-wives
doesn't show up here and spoil the moment.{G})
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (16 of 109), Read 105 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 08:16 PM
Dale, your post reminds me of something I read just today..
"Literature does not begin to exist through the work of a
single individual. It exists when it is adopted by others and
becomes a part of social life--when it becomes, thanks to
reading, a shared experience.
...(literature) is also an experience of learning what and
who we are, in our human integrity and our human
imperfection.."
The New Republic online
Why Literature
Mario Vargas Llosa
God knows, Rabbit is full of human imperfections, but who
isn't?.. Perhaps laughing at Harry's imperfections is a way
to not take ourselves, or our own human foibles, too
seriously.
I'll figure it out better as I get further in the
series..hopefully.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (17 of 109), Read 90 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 09:04 PM
Beej: One more thing to keep in mind...
"What is an Angstrom?
"An angstrom is a unit of measure named after Anders
Jonas Angstrom (1814-1874), a Swedish physicist and
pioneer in spectroscopy. The Angstrom Unit is a length
equal to one hundred-millionth of a centimeter. It is used
especially to specify radiation wavelengths. It is smaller
than a micron and a particle an angstrom in size is able to
enter the cell wall through the process of osmosis."
So, Harry/Rabbit bears the name of a 19th century scientist
whose greatest achievement (very close to an exact
century before the RABBIT series begins) was identifying
the smallest particle of the universe that was measurable in
his time. Coincidence?
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (18 of 109), Read 92 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 09:13 PM
One last thing (for tonight, anyway). I promise...
I had no idea why Updike chose the epigraphs he did for
the four books of RABBIT until I'd finished the final one,
RABBIT AT REST. Only then did the epigraph for the third
volume, RABBIT IS RICH, start to make sense:
The difficulty to think at the end of day,
When the shapeless shadow covers the sun
And nothing is left except light on your fur...
--Wallace Stevens, "A Rabbit as King of the Ghosts"
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (19 of 109), Read 94 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 09:17 PM
Wow, Dale..that's really interesting. Do you think Updike
chose this name (Angstrom) for that reason?
How do you know these things?
You must read a lot..:-)
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (20 of 109), Read 98 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 09:22 PM
"A Rabbit as King of the Ghosts"
That says it all. He really was a Rabbit as king of the
ghosts. His days of royalty were dead..He just didn't know
it.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (21 of 109), Read 93 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Theresa Simpson (theresa.a.simpson@gte.net)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 01:13 AM
Hi Beej.
We did have a great discussion here a while back. As I
recall, I promised to read Rabbit, Run if Steve would read
William Carlos Williams' "In the American Grain." I ended up
reading the first two Rabbit books (I think Steve read some
reviews or something of American Grain - he's missing out .
. .).
Anyway, my dislike of Updike isn't anywhere near as deep
as I may have sometimes pretended here (it helps to roil up
the discussion and things get interesting.) I agree about
the humor - my favorite scene is Rabbit walking down the
street after leaving his family, with all his clothes rolled up
into a ball, and he runs into the Reverend. Hilarious
conversation ensues. What I like about Updike is he lets
the inherent humor speak for itself, instead of overplaying
the elements.
Of course, there's plenty I DON'T like about the dude. I'm
trying to imagine the reaction to a novel that stated what
WOMEN of the 50s really thought. Steve, Dale, et al. would
you read such a book? Imagine it would it irk ya?
Theresa
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (22 of 109), Read 95 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 06:53 AM
Theresa, Didn't we recently discuss an Alice Munro story
about a woman of the 50's? Did a woman of the 50's think?
I always picture them as having their brains knotted up in
their crinolines.
That scene you mention was great. It probably loses a lot
taken out of context, but when he is talking with the
reverend about leaving his wife and mentions he has quit
smoking, the reverend says,
'.. "You're a better man than I am." He pauses and thinks,
then looks at Harry with startled, arched eyebrows.'
I'm still trying to figure Ruth (not our Ruth) out. One
not-so-passionate roll around on the mattress, for which he
has paid $15 (Rabbit calculates that given Ruth's weight of
150 lbs., he has paid a dime a pound for
her..tackytackytacky) and Rabbit has suddenly found love?
Or maybe she is fulfilling something more for Rabbit.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (23 of 109), Read 95 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 07:11 AM
I think men still regard women..at least sexually..the same
way Rabbit does. They are just afraid they will:
a)get hit on the side of the head if they admit it.
b)not get any 'hankey pankey' if they admit it.
c)a combination of A and B.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (24 of 109), Read 98 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 07:35 AM
There are two lines that really struck me as telling a lot
about Rabbit.
The first:
'That was the thing about him, he just lived in his skin and
didn't give a thought to the consequences of anything.'
The second:
(Harry, speaking to Ruth) 'if you have the guts to be
yourself other people'll pay your price.'
Harry knows his choices have consequences. He just
believes they will be borne by others and he will happily sail
along through life.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (25 of 109), Read 94 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:35 AM
Ahem. Careful how you talk about 50s women there, Beej.
Ruth, admitting to a certain amount of crinoline poisoning
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (26 of 109), Read 77 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 02:25 PM
Ruth, I think there are two types of 50's ladies..the Lucy
Ricardo type and the Lauren Bacall type.
You are definitely a Lauren.
I'm almost done with Rabbit, Run and about to start Rabbit
Redux.
So is anybody willing to read this with me?
Ruth??? Dale??? Steve??? Theresa???
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (27 of 109), Read 78 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 02:44 PM
I'll pick up Redux tomorrow, on my Life Support Activity Day.
Ruth, former (I hope) 50s woman
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (28 of 109), Read 93 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 03:38 PM
You are right on the money about one thing, Beej. Rabbit is
a man whom I would absolutely detest in real life. However,
as I wended my way through these books, I became utterly
fond of him.
The recent novella sequel is found in a collection called Licks
of Love.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0375411135/constantreader
Sara Sauers and I finally had the opportunity to hear John
Updike speak here in Cedar Rapids about two months ago.
I was on Cloud Nine. Setting aside my own bias, I would
still urge anyone who has the chance to hear him speak to
make the effort. He is marvelously entertaining in person.
Beej, I have a pretty good recollection of Rabbit, Run, Rabbit
is Rich, and Rabbit at Rest. However, not so good of Rabbit
Redux for some reason. Perhaps I will look back into that
one.
Steve
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (29 of 109), Read 95 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 03:44 PM
Dale, those ex-wives of yours are completely biased.
Therefore, I consider them unworthy of belief and have
entirely discounted their testimony concerning your
despicable behavior.
Steve
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (30 of 109), Read 92 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 03:47 PM
Oh, thank you so much for providing me the link to the
novella.
Did Updike mention Rabbit at all?
Rabbit is only 22 (I think) when the series starts.. It will be
interesting to watch him mature.
I hope he matures.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (31 of 109), Read 94 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 03:51 PM
You know, reading about Rabbit is like watching somebody
do a pratfall.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (32 of 109), Read 95 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 03:59 PM
From the excerpt of Licks of Love:
"...we survived by clustering together like a ball of snakes in a
desert cave."
Heehee. It's writing like that that makes me read Updike.
Ruth
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (33 of 109), Read 96 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 04:01 PM
Sort of gives you the tickles, doesn't it Ruth?
I'm finding most of Rabbit affecting me the same way.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (34 of 109), Read 94 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 04:01 PM
Beej: Yep, in effect Rabbit does a slow-motion pratfall over
four decades.
For readers of the future, I think the way Updike captures
as background the voices and attitudes and spirit of each
decade will be a treasure trove of on-the-ground Americana
for readers, in addition to the story of Rabbit and other
characters. I think Updike does a miraculous job of making
that background real without letting it overshadow the
story.
Like Steve, I'm probably foggiest about REDUX, which is set
in the flower-power era. Or maybe that was just a foggy
era.{G} I'll try to read along as much as I'm able.
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (35 of 109), Read 72 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 04:13 PM
Dale, I am so happy that you, Ruth and Steve will be here
to discuss this with me!
Its been awhile since I've become this excited over a book.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (36 of 109), Read 73 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 04:17 PM
from an Amazon.com review:
Yes, Rabbit's life can be read as a tawdry, melodramatic,
almost tragic soap-opera, but to do so would be missing
the point. These books are also slyly, wickedly funny. How
ridiculous, we think. Look at these bumpkins, struggling to
find happiness through self-gratification. But how tragic.
And how sad. Because we are contained in here too.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (37 of 109), Read 69 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Thursday, May 24, 2001 09:00 PM
I think I have figured out why Harry likes Ruth..she asks
nothing of him and expects nothing from him.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (38 of 109), Read 74 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 09:01 AM
Ruth is an extremely strong person in my opinion.
While I think she loves Rabbit (to the extent that I
understand that term), she does a very good job of
protecting herself from him emotionally as much as
possible.
As for me, I have long been deeply in love (to the extent
that I understand that term) with Thelma Harrison. Dale
knows this. Everyone who knows me knows this. I've made
no secret of it.
Steve
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (39 of 109), Read 79 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 09:06 AM
On the other hand, I think that I probably actively dislike
Janice more than most other readers.
She is slovenly and tends toward sluttishness. She is an
alcoholic. She is a ditz. Her ditziness is not of the harmless,
amusing variety, however. Her ditziness in conjunction with
her alcoholism results in the drowning death of the
daughter in the bathtub for which I have never been able
to forgive her.
We always speak of how high school was the apex of
Rabbit's life, but the same goes in spades for Janice.
Steve
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (40 of 109), Read 81 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 09:19 AM
Points very well taken, about Ruth and Thelma. Though, like
Steve, I'm partial (an understatement) to Thelma, I believe
both of them stand out in Rabbit's life because they're
basically very good people, which cannot be said of most of
the types he hangs out with.
(Charlie Stavros obviously falls somewhere in the middle;
very complex and intriguing guy.)
One particular triumph of Updike's, I think, is that he can
take a character as unloveable and annoying as Rabbit,
and make me feel really sorry for him because of the cards
he has been dealt re: his wife, Janice, and son Nelson. It's
hard for me to think of two other characters in fiction who
are at once totally realistic and so viscerally despicable to
me.
(PS: As offensive as I find Rabbit's debates about politics,
particularly in REDUX, I swear Updike was prescient. If
Rabbit were alive today, he could easily pass for a
right-wing "intellectual" on the TV talk-show circuit, maybe
even have his own show--a very scary state of affairs, to
me.)
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (41 of 109), Read 84 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 09:31 AM
Redux is coming back to me now, Dale. Thank you. This is
the one wherein Janice is sleeping with Charlie Stavros.
Also, this is the one featuring the very young Jill and the
problematic Skeeter. And Rabbit becomes a pothead. I must
reread.
Don't you think that Updike rivals Faulkner in his creation of
an entire Pennsylvania suburban world, comparable to the
creation of Yoknapatawpha County?
Steve
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (42 of 109), Read 83 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 09:31 AM
Janice was slovenly straight from the beginning of the book,
but I forgave her partly because she was pregnant and
partly because Rabbit walked out on her. As I got further in
the book I began to strongly dislike her, and began to
sympathize with Rabbit. When Rabbit left after she rebuked
and belittled him for wanting sex, and she went on that
drinking binge, slapped her three year old son for not
eating greasy bacon after the effort she put into into
cooking it while drunk, I felt disgusted..
and then the awful drowning of the baby..I doubt Janice will
redeem herself in my eyes for the rest of the series. I don't
like her, either.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (43 of 109), Read 84 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 09:32 AM
I was going to ask who Thelma is, but it seems I will meet
her as I go on.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (44 of 109), Read 86 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 09:35 AM
Beej: I can't remember whether Thelma first appears in
REDUX or RABBIT IS RICH, but it's at a time when Harry
most needs her. I'm sure Steve can speak more accurately
on that aspect.
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (45 of 109), Read 93 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 09:38 AM
I've started Rabbit Redux..should we start a new thread on
it? I know Ruth is starting it today, also.
I plan on reading the entire Rabbit series without break. So
I will meet all these folks as I continue.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (46 of 109), Read 89 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 09:45 AM
My best recollection is that her first major appearance is in
Rabbit is Rich. Did not the group trip to the Caribbean, or
wherever, take place when everyone was doing well
financially? That was when the wife swapping took place.
Thelma is a classic--a relatively quiet, plain appearing
woman at the outset. I well remember Rabbit's
disappointment when he drew her. (Can't remember which
one he really wanted.) However, Thelma turns out to be a
veritable sexual odyssey for Rabbit. I had not difficulty with
any of this because her husband, Ronnie, is so clearly a
jerk.
Beej, if you get upset about plot spoilers, tell me. I'm not
paying any attention to that right now in these
reminiscences because I really don't think that suspense
about what's going to happen is the point at all here.
Steve
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (47 of 109), Read 97 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 09:58 AM
Oh no, Steve, I'm not upset about plot spoilers. I'm more
into the psychological goings-on with the characters..what
is making them what they are..
and I'm interested in what you and Dale are saying..
Please, continue.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (48 of 109), Read 93 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 10:32 AM
Ruth is an extremely strong person in my opinion.
Sigh. For one heady moment there, Steve, I thought you
were talking about me.
I'm picking Redux up at the library this morning, tho
goddknows when I'll get it started. The Invasion of the
Grandchildren starts this afternoon and will last until
tomorrow afternoon.
Sunday I plan on being tired.
Ruth
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (49 of 109), Read 96 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 10:42 AM
Beej, someday you will learn not to say to Ole Steve,
"Please continue." That is ill-advised.
Dale mentioned how these books constitute a valuable
cultural history. In preparing to write them--they came out
in roughly ten year intervals, each at the end of a
decade--he must have taken daily notes on news events.
For example, in Rabbit is Rich (my favorite because I'm a
seventies guy) Ronnie Harrison tells the story he heard on
the news about a golfer who bludgeoned a goose to death
with his putter because the goose had honked just as he
was preparing for a shot. I remember that story well. It
was a real news story. These references to then current
events are delightful.
Also, the general cultural situation of the time is captured.
Rabbit rationalizes the expense of the Caribbean trip to
Janice by saying that they might as well spend their money
before inflation eats it up. The gasoline shortage is there,
too.
The wife-swapping bit is a piece of cultural history. It was a
big deal in the seventies, the time of Bob and Carol and Ted
and Alice. It was married couples' way of getting in on the
sexual revolution belatedly. Does anyone do that anymore?
Likewise, the business of couples taking Polaroid pictures of
themselves having sex. Nobody does that anymore, I don't
think. It was a phenomenon of the time.
Steve
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (50 of 109), Read 98 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 11:14 AM
Couples taking Polaroid pictures of themselves having
sex???? What did they do? Use their toes to snap the
picture? This conjures up strange..albeit, interesting..
images in my mind...
As I continue with Rabbit Redux, it just ticks me off to no
end that Janice still drinks after what happened with her
baby. To me, Janice will always be shrouded in that
drowning. Did Harry forgive her? I don't know..I think he
blames himself (I don't at all, except for the fact that he did
insist in that first drink) But I don't forgive her.
Its interesting to me that though it says Harry has not been
called Rabbit for years, Updike still refers to him as Rabbit.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (51 of 109), Read 94 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 11:29 AM
Oh, Ruth..I hope you get to start it soon. I'm looking
forward to hearing what you have to say about it.
(Steve, about that golf story..my father-in-law used to insist
a friend of his hit the ball into a pond, a goose swooped
down, picked it up and dropped it into the intended hole,
making it a hole in one.)
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (52 of 109), Read 85 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
S. Bohinka (bohinka@riconnect.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 11:39 AM
You all got me interested in these now. :) Where would be
a good place to start? Does it matter? Steve mentioned one
because it was a 70s type book--a good place for me to
start or should I go back to an earlier book so I don't miss
something?
Bo
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (53 of 109), Read 90 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 11:42 AM
Oh, good! Another Rabbit reader!!!!!
I am a beginner in these books, but I would strongly
recommend starting with the first..'Rabbit, Run'.
I think you would miss out on too much to start in
midstream with any of the other novels.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (54 of 109), Read 88 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 12:24 PM
Bo: I agree with Beej...the four RABBIT books are
self-contained, but they're such a richer universe if you
start at the beginning and know the characters' histories.
I don't think you'll regret starting at RABBIT, RUN and
reading the series.
Another thing I admire about Updike is how varied his
writings are, the RABBIT persona being not at all typical of
his fiction.
For writings about marriage/divorce/kids, two of his best
and most affecting (I think) short stories explore the
experience in a narrative voice as unlike Rabbit's as I can
imagine: "Separating," and "Deaths of Distant Friends."
When you crave more Updike but need a temporary break
from Rabbit, those are great to dip into.
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (55 of 109), Read 92 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 12:27 PM
Dale, I've read Separating, and almost nominated it for
discussion in the short story conference instead of the
Cheever story..Maybe I still will at a later date..Its a very
good story. I think.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (56 of 109), Read 96 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 12:32 PM
Goodness gracious, Bo! Of course you should start with the
first one. Rabbit, Run in many ways is still the best. If this is
not your cup of tea, then stop, but the later books have so
much more depth if you are familiar with all the history of
these characters.
I can't believe this question about the Polaroids, Beej.
You're kidding! Really, how old are you anyway?
Polaroid cameras had already been around for a long while
in the early seventies. Still, the real implications of not
having to turn film in for developing seemed to dawn on all
of us at once right then.
Steve
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (57 of 109), Read 108 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 12:34 PM
Now, Steve...I can fully understand individual photos..but
polaroid photos taken of a COUPLE involved in this
recreation requires a third person, doesn't it??
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (58 of 109), Read 109 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 12:36 PM
Beej & Steve: Let's see...when was the self-timer for
cameras invented?{G}
Such cutting-edge innovations really have unpredictable
implications for the cultural Zeitgeist, don't they?
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (59 of 109), Read 115 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 12:38 PM
But, Dale, I don't think polaroid cameras have a self
timer..at least I don't think they did in the seventies. Thus, I
think folks must have used their toes, or...whatever...
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (60 of 109), Read 111 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 12:51 PM
Beej: I did a quick trolling through Polaroid collector Web
sites and found ColorPack models with accessory self-timer
available in 1971 or so.
A couple of years later, Polaroid offers a model called the
"Swinger" and a model called the "Big Swinger."
Coincidence? Surely.{G}
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (61 of 109), Read 109 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 12:53 PM
ANYWAY..to get this back on track, this is from the cover of
the book:
re'dux:adj.(L.,fr.reducere to bring back) Lit.,led back;
specif., Med., indicating return to health after a disease.
---Webster's New International Dictionary.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (62 of 109), Read 118 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 12:58 PM
From Dale;
A couple of years later,
Polaroid offers a model
called the "Swinger" and
a model called the
"Big Swinger."
Hahahahahaaaaaa!!!!!!! How funny!!!!!!
You're incorrigible...!!
And btw..I am well old enough to remember the 70's...and
the 60's. No Spring chicken here, which goes to show you,
its not the age, its the experience! (or, in this specific
matter, the lack thereof..)
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (63 of 109), Read 122 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 01:13 PM
I think I can bring this discussion around full circle here if I
mention that in a past Updike discussion I got in trouble for
saying I loved Updike's shorts.
Ruth
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (64 of 109), Read 128 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 01:16 PM
hahhaha!! and where, pray tell, did you see Updike's
shorts, Ruth?
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (65 of 109), Read 128 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 01:45 PM
A subject that also requires a closer look.
In Rabbit is Rich the elastic waistbands of Harry's shorts are
always shot. (He has developed a gut.) He knows he
should still be buying Jockeys, but cheap substitutes at the
new large stores are so popular that Jockeys are difficult to
find. "Value" had driven out quality. The Carter
administration is exactly when that happened.
I now realize you're putting me on, Beej. Your particular
brand of false naïveté is more difficult to detect than the
usual. The camera in question, Dale, was something called
an SX-70.
Steve
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (66 of 109), Read 126 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 01:51 PM
Great "short" subject, Steve & Ruth.
And Beej: I'm honored to be called incorrigible, but I'm not
making this Polaroid stuff up.
Also, I let slide your comment that these couples must have
been pressing the shutter with "a toe...or whatever." For
me, it would definitely have been a toe.{G}
Ahem. Back to literature. I promise.
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (67 of 109), Read 129 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 01:56 PM
Look here, Dale. It was all my fault, not yours. Let's get
back on topic now and discuss the advent of the compact
video camera that you can hold and operate with one hand.
Steve
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (68 of 109), Read 147 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 02:00 PM
No. Please wait a minute here! My brand of false naivete???
Not false...simply raised Catholic.
My experiences are more limited than yours, is all.
okay, now that I've defended my honor..carry on with
literature.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (69 of 109), Read 135 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 02:24 PM
In the beginning of Rabbit Redux, Harry works with his
father in the printing business.. obviously, he is conforming.
And I'm glad to hear he becomes involved in more
nonconformist activities down the road. I was beginning to
worry about Rabbit.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (70 of 109), Read 131 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 02:54 PM
Oh, and Dale? I'm sure you had better things to do
with...whatever...
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (71 of 109), Read 137 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 03:02 PM
Beej: In REDUX, just about all the players "non-conform" in
a major way. Cruel irony upon cruel irony, Rabbit and his
father were both Linotype operators (a very
labor-intensive, specialized, and hazardous craft using
molten metal to create pages for a printing press) just
before the "offset" printing method--both photographic and
computerized, also known as "cold type"--that is ubiquitous
today comes along to make their trade an antiquity.
Another thing that strikes me on starting REDUX is how sex
is never absent long in these four novels, even if only in
metaphor and imagery. For example, Janice gets a
part-time job (doing the books...yeah, right) for an
automobile dealer (i.e., Charlie Stavros). When Rabbit calls
her to complain that she's never home, Janice shows this
deep empathy with the fading nature of Rabbit's printing
profession:
"Yeah. Look, Janice. It sounds like you're having a lot of fun
over there--"
"Fun? I'm working, sweetie."
"Sure. Now what the **** is really going on?"
"What do you mean, 'going on'? Nothing is going on except
your wife is trying to bring home a little extra bread."
Bread?
"'Going on'--really. You may think your seven or whatever
dollars an hour you get for sitting in the dark diddling that
machine is wonderful money, Harry, but the fact is a hundred
dollars doesn't buy anything any more, it just goes..."
***
Ah, nothing like a supportive spouse. I was working as a
newspaper reporter in 1971, and seven dollars an hour
would have been a gold mine.
Beej: I think REDUX definitely deserves its own new thread;
would you do the honors?
This time out, no sex talk. (Just kidding.{G})
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (72 of 109), Read 134 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 03:05 PM
I would be honored to start a Redux thread. I've been just
waiting for the word.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (73 of 109), Read 129 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 03:11 PM
Okay!..we now have a Rabbit Redux thread..
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (74 of 109), Read 101 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Theresa Simpson (theresa.a.simpson@gte.net)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 10:50 PM
Going back to the thoughts of those women of the 50s in
their crinolines (that's that netting type of slip to make your
skirt pouf out, right?) I'll bet they were as lurid as Rabbit's,
under that veneer. They were all Sylvia Plaths and that
Music Swims Back to Me/Flee on Your Donkey poet thinkers
underneath it all. I'll betcha . . .
Theresa
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (75 of 109), Read 108 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Friday, May 25, 2001 11:48 PM
Alas, Theresa. You'd lose.
Ruth
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (76 of 109), Read 122 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dick Haggart (law@haggart.com)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 01:12 AM
No, I'm afraid almost all women of the 50's and 60's actually
were hopeless sluts and libertines, Ruth. Apparently you
were caught in some kind of Puritan, southern California
time-warp. Rare, but it happens.
Dick In The 21st Century
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (77 of 109), Read 112 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 07:30 AM
Gee, Dick, looks like I missed out again. I guess I was
caught in some kind of Puritan, North Alabama time warp
during those years.{G}
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (78 of 109), Read 109 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 07:51 AM
Can't you just picture Dick up there in Alaska, sitting in an
igloo, rolling a joint and chomping funny brownies,
surrounded by a bevy of hopeless sluts?
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (79 of 109), Read 110 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 07:53 AM
..lazily clicking the shutter of his polaroid camera.....
with his toe?
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (80 of 109), Read 116 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 08:01 AM
Beej: Alas, when I young, there were always reported
sightings of hopeless sluts (sometimes even hopeful sluts),
but they all occurred at least one county distant from me.
Now I come to find out they were as far away as
Alaska.{G}
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (81 of 109), Read 118 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 08:20 AM
Hahahhaahaaaa! HA!!!!!!
Well, you just didn't travel far enough in your youth, is all!
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (82 of 109), Read 121 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 08:24 AM
But, then again, Dale..you might not have missed
much..those folks up there think rubbing noses is having
sex..
Maybe Dick just rubbed a lot of noses.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (83 of 109), Read 113 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 10:58 AM
Most of us 50s sluts spent a lot of time reading those
Puritan, southern California time-warp magazines. The ones
that reiterated the dreadful fate, the ruined lives of young
women who.....
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.called a young man on the phone.
Gasp!
Ruth
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (84 of 109), Read 104 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Pres Lancaster (plancast@neteze.com)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 11:35 AM
No dearth of imagination here.
pres
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (85 of 109), Read 105 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 12:43 PM
Wasn't this about the time Playboy magazine came into
existence?
Boy oh, boy! talk about a conflict in interests!
Here are all the young guys trying to find their personal
playmate, and all the young women, gloved hands in lap,
sitting by the phone, waiting for these guys to phone..while
all the young guys are hiding in their rooms staring at the
playmate of the month.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (86 of 109), Read 55 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Edd Houghton (eddh@pacbell.net)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 05:48 PM
Say what you will, as far as I'm concerned, the fifties
women have been often emulated, but never surpassed.
EDD a fifties guy.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (87 of 109), Read 59 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Gail Singer (gailsinger_gross@hotmail.com)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 07:08 PM
greetings CERTIFIED BOOK JUNKIE.. DALE..
now you gave me my laugh for the day!!
you always know how to write something that tickles my
fancy!!
you are certainly in the right PROFESSION...
gail..a passionate reader
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (88 of 109), Read 58 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Gail Singer (gailsinger_gross@hotmail.com)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 07:09 PM
RIGHT ON , MR. EDD!!
gail
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (89 of 109), Read 65 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 07:18 PM
Dale isn't only funny, Gail..he's SMART! What a
combination,huh?
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (90 of 109), Read 49 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 10:53 PM
I think Playboy came later, Beej. I'm sure they weren't
around in the early 50s, when I was in bloom.
Ruth
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (91 of 109), Read 59 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
David Moody (davidmoody@prodigy.net)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 11:15 PM
The first issue of Playboy appeared in December, 1953.
David, who, while looking this up, found that the first work
of fiction to appear in Playboy was a reprint of Fahrenheit
451 beginning in March 1954.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (92 of 109), Read 53 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Saturday, May 26, 2001 11:41 PM
Just when this Puritan, southern California time-warp babe
was a college freshman. Who knew?
Ruth
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (93 of 109), Read 42 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dottie Randall (randallj@ix.netcom.com)
Date:
Sunday, May 27, 2001 02:25 AM
On 5/26/01 11:41:36 PM, R Bavetta wrote:
>Just when this Puritan,
>southern California time-warp
>babe was a college freshman.
>Who knew?
>
>Ruth
>
>“Ain't it funny how an old
>broken bottle looks just like
>a diamond ring." John Prine
>
Ruth -- I am convinced that we -- as humans -- tend to live
our own lives in a state of unconsciousness relative to our
own times no matter what we actually hear, see, know or
are being taught of our own histories as we are living. I
have moments of revelation of fact such as your Playboy ca
1953 and I love your Puritan, time-warp babe definition --
it's a perfect description of my own out of step-with-my
own-times feeling when I look back. Usually, prompted to
look back by such discoveries as the above - {G}.
Dottie -- whose only (as far as the leaky grey sieve serves
me) Updike experience is the one struggled through here
and finished at home and thrown into the trash when
finished -- would Rabbit counteract a bad taste in my mouth
so bad that I actually threw that book in the TRASH not the
give away or used book bags?
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (94 of 109), Read 45 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Sherry Keller (shkell@starband.net)
Date:
Sunday, May 27, 2001 07:03 AM
I read Rabbit, Run as a teenager. Updike was quite the
thing when I was in high school. Of course, I had to hide it
from my mother. I even did a senior English paper on The
Centaur. But I know I was much much too young to really
get Rabbit. After I finish Emma Blau I think it's time I did a
reread. I have a nice big Quality Paperback edition with all
three books in it (I'll have to use a hoist to hold it up!) Did I
hear there's a fourth book? What's it's name?
Sherry
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (95 of 109), Read 48 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Sunday, May 27, 2001 07:49 AM
Sherry, With the novella, there are five Rabbit books:
'Rabbit, Run'..'Rabbit Redux'..'Rabbit Is Rich'..'Rabbit At
Rest'..and the novella in the book 'Links of Love' for which
Steve provides an Amazon.com link in post 28. (I thought
there were only four Rabbit books until he mentioned the
novella.)
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (96 of 109), Read 46 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Sunday, May 27, 2001 09:18 AM
Dottie, I am very curious as to what it was about the Rabbit
book that bothered you so much.. Was it the sexual
content, or Rabbit's views of women, or the drowning of the
baby? Or was it simply Updike's style in general? Have you
read any other Updike stories? (I'm toying with the idea of
reading the Bech series next.)
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (97 of 109), Read 47 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Sunday, May 27, 2001 10:20 AM
Dottie, the time-warp phrase was Dick's not mine. I know I
wasn't nearly as puritan as the times demanded, and
suffered gallons of guilt for it.
I'm curious, too, as to why you threw Updike in the trash.
One of my main attractions to Updike is that he just writes
so damn well. Sometimes I think I'd read a laundry list if it
was written well.
Ruth
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (98 of 109), Read 54 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Sunday, May 27, 2001 11:33 AM
Ruth writes:
One of my main attractions to Updike is that he just writes so
damn well. Sometimes I think I'd read a laundry list if it was
written well.
Ruth: Amen, to that. I'm a hopeless sucker for good writing.
It blinds me to a multitude of other faults any piece might
have. Updike is often criticized by other writers for "not
liking" his own characters; arguable, but I think it's a lot
more complex than they put it.
In any event, I keep going back to Ezra Pound's contention
that "the sole morality of writing is fundamental accuracy of
statement." To me, the RABBIT books are as fundamentally
accurate in statement about the world-as-it-is as any body
of work I know. Love/hate these people (and/or the
author), they're undoubtably real to me. I know people who
are like them, and I know them, and feel for them as if they
were real. Go, John.
End of sermon. (After all, it's Sunday.{G})
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (99 of 109), Read 46 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Sunday, May 27, 2001 11:48 AM
Dealing with Rabbit is like dealing with the cousin you really
can't stand to be around very long..He's part of your life so
you just accept him as he is, like him or not.
Somebody here compared the realism of the town and the
people of this book to Faulkner's Snopes..how true.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (100 of 109), Read 49 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Sunday, May 27, 2001 11:50 AM
I can tell you Rabbit was alive and well in Canoga Park High
School in Los Angeles in 1952. He's now managing a motel
in Palm Springs.
Ruth
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (101 of 109), Read 56 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Sunday, May 27, 2001 11:53 AM
We all really do know Rabbit, don't we? Isn't that part of his
success?
And I bet if we looked closely, we could find him even in
Yoknapatawpha County, going by another name..
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (102 of 109), Read 51 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Sunday, May 27, 2001 12:14 PM
Ruth, Beej, & All: Yep, there's a whole host of Rabbits
across Alabama in the business community...college football
stars who didn't make pro, but who the colleges' more
wealthy alumni helped set up in their own businesses.
The most popular categories seem to be (a)automobile
dealerships (!), (b)insurance, (c)sports bar-and-grills, and
(d)pleasure boat sales and service. They're making good
money, they've got name recognition, and many are
generous to charities.
But you have to wonder about their inner lives, when
probably their proudest possession is the scratchy
16-millimeter film footage of their glory days on the gridiron.
Is there something about this phenomenon that's
particularly American, I wonder? Leading to Fitzgerald's
statement that "American lives have no second acts"?
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (103 of 109), Read 50 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Sunday, May 27, 2001 12:41 PM
Gosh, Dale. What a thought provoking post you wrote. Do
you know who it brings to my mind, though on a much
bigger scale?
O.J. Simpson.
I'm not comparing Rabbit to OJ in anyway outside of the tie
of past glory as a sports great, and how that can affect a
person's choices in life.
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (104 of 109), Read 62 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Sunday, May 27, 2001 12:44 PM
Wasn't there also a Rabbit in Stingo's earlier life, in Sophie's
Choice?
Maybe there is a bit of Rabbit in all of us, in one way or
another. Maybe Updike is pulling out that part of us that we
would rather keep covered, and shoving our noses in it. ..(I
keep thinking of that kid's song Little Bunny Foo Foo..the
ending says..'Hare today, goon tomorrow.' It just seems so
appropriate for this discussion!)
Beej
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (105 of 109), Read 52 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Anne Wilfong (anne.wilfong@gte.net)
Date:
Sunday, May 27, 2001 05:18 PM
Sherry,
I have a similar volume of Updike's four RABBIT novels. I
read RABBIT, RUN as a senior in high school and remember
loving the sarcasm then, but remember little else. Give a
shout when you're ready to start it, and I'll join you. I'm
into some nonfiction now, so any time will be good!
Anne
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (106 of 109), Read 28 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
David Moody (davidmoody@prodigy.net)
Date:
Sunday, May 27, 2001 10:30 PM
Just hopping over to the left.
David
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (107 of 109), Read 35 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Monday, May 28, 2001 01:03 AM
Hopping?
Groan.
Ruth
“Ain't it funny how an old broken bottle looks just like a
diamond ring." John Prine
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (108 of 109), Read 43 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Monday, May 28, 2001 06:20 AM
Beej, I just don't have a major itch to reread Rabbit Redux
right now, but I am well into a reread of Rabbit is Rich, my
favorite. It's the best way I could see to stay with you since
you seem to be flying through these. I will be lying in wait
for you there.
You better not quit now.
Steve
Topic:
Rabbit, Run: John Updike (109 of 109), Read 46 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Monday, May 28, 2001 08:15 AM
Don't worry! I'm in this to the end! My fear is that when I
am done, I will miss Rabbit. He is becoming a significant
other. Hard to believe I only met him last week.
Beej
|
John Updike
|
