Winterson enfolds her seventh novel within the world of computers, and transforms the signal development of our time into a wholly human medium. The story is simple: an e-mail writer called Ali will compose anything you like, on order, provided you're prepared to enter the story as yourself and risk leaving it as someone else. You can be the hero of your own life. You can have freedom just for one night. But there is a price, and Ali discovers that she, too, will have to pay it.
The PowerBook reinvents itself as it travels from London to Paris, Capri, and Cyberspace, using fairy tales, contemporary myths, and popular culture to weave a story of failed but requited love.
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (1 of 36), Read 75
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sara Sauers stsauers@att.net
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 12:10 AM
Jeanette Winterson (b. 1959) grew up in a house with only
6 books. One of them was Sir Thomas Malory’s Morte
d’Arthur, which she read in the outhouse with a flashlight.
(The Bible was read indoors.) She left home at the age of
16. According to a 1997 interview with Salon.com, she is a
'pixie,' has been called a 'lesbian desperado,' and had a
torrid affair with her agent, the wife of writer Julian
Barnes. She has recently edited a new edition of Virginia
Woolf's fiction and she writes a regular column for "The
Guardian" newspaper. Her official Web site is
http://www.jeanettewinterson.com.
The Powerbook is (loosely) about Ali, whom I will call a
woman, and whom Winterson calls a 'language costumier.'
Ali hangs in the non-linear, digital world of virtual reality
and hypertext, where she transcends time and gender.
Ali's day job is never revealed, but by night she promises
her e-clients a place in the virtual story of their choice, with
the understanding that 'you’re prepared to enter the story
as yourself and risk leaving it as someone else.'
I have a number of comments/questions about this book,
but I'll limit myself to one for now. While reading The
Powerbook, I never felt like I was in a digital world. I
contend that trying to place virtual reality between fixed
covers is futile.
Let the discussion begin…
Sara
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (2 of 36), Read 58
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 10:36 AM
Torrid affair? Details, please.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to shovel
your own snow." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (3 of 36), Read 58
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Bambi Bambi bambi201@hotmail.com
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 11:04 AM
Hello Sara,
I´m not sure if it´s you, but I got this address from the JW
readers site. From Sara.
I didn´t have the feeling I was actually AT a computer
either, while reading the book. But I DID experience the
thrill I get from, connecting with people, entering exciting
sites, ore just surfing on The Net. So to me she did
succeed in creating a digital world on the page of a book. I
didn´t feel I was sitting at a computer, I felt like I was in
the fantasy of being inside a digital world.
So it´s definite not a "futile" attempt. In fact I think that
the description itself as "futile" misses the point
completely.
How much did this lack of "cyberfeeling" influence your
opinion about the book?
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (4 of 36), Read 54
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 11:38 AM
I suspect that the details are best left to your imagination,
Dick. The virtual "torrid" in your head will most probably
then be far more torrid that the actual torridness of it all.
I am in between on this futility question, Sara and Bambi. I
certainly understood that the little stories and fables were
composed and sent via e-mail. Am I correct that these two
women did actually meet, and that those interim dialogues
and trysts between the two of them in Paris and hither
and yon actually took place?
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (5 of 36), Read 52
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Pres Lancaster plancast@neteze.com
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 12:03 PM
I felt that the cyber setting was nothing more than the
author's device to launch and move the text which could
have been told in the form used without any need of or
any benefit from the cyber presentation. Ninety-nine
percent of the telling was cyber free.
I enjoyed the book, BUT I find the substance thin. The
conversations seem, to me, to be crystalline true or real.
The mood tales are delightfully told. The sum just isn't
there because the characters' character is limited to the
come-or-go question. I use the word "text" in the
paragraph above, because I am uncomfortable using the
words "story" or "narrative" with respect to this book.
Same goes for "telling".
The book is an artful construct, beautiful in its way. It
doesn't gain credit because of the form; that is not new.
pres
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (6 of 36), Read 53
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 12:58 PM
I pretty much agree with Pres. Lift the cyber connection
from the book, and it still remains more or less intact. I had
to keep reminding myself of the cyber connection anyway.
That part of it came no more alive for me than it did for
Sara.
I think where the writing shone was in each vignette,
rather than in the connecting tissue.
Ruth
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy
and taste good with ketchup. Anon.
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (7 of 36), Read 50
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sara Sauers stsauers@att.net
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 01:33 PM
Well said, Pres. There might be those who would argue
that your choice of the word 'text,'and refusal to use
'story,' may mean Winterson did succeed at placing us in a
hypertext, if not digital, environment.
Bambi, I don't think that I am the Sara you found last
night, but, hey, who knows -- I was moving around on the
JW sites. To answer your question, my enjoyment of the
book was not affected at all by the fact that I never felt
like I was in a digital world.
My favorite pieces in the book were what Winterson calls
"covers" of literary classics. I experimented with that idea
myself in a series of books I printed several years ago.
Dick, no details of 'torrid' were provided, but there is more
of interest on the mind of JW at
http://www.salon.com/april97/winterson970428.html.
(That'll cost you $13.)
Sara
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (8 of 36), Read 51
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 01:20 PM
I agree with you, pres, that the cyber aspect did not come
to the fore and I was very glad of that.
Bambi, I, also, got the feeling of moving but I didn't feel
that I was surfing the web so much as actually being
transported from place to place and time to time. I felt that
she took me beyond the usual web surfing experience.
Like the Internet, she has links between stories. These
links were in the form of words repeated with different
connotations which provided resonance to the experience.
This, of course, is in addition to her excellent writing. I
always enjoyed the locations and what I experienced
there was a delight.
Dean.
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (9 of 36), Read 47
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 02:39 PM
I think I disagree that failure to more accurately or
completely portray cyberspace did not negatively effect the
telling of the story. One of the reasons (perhaps the
reason, in my mind) the narrative technique was
unreflective of any kind of actual cyberspace experience
(how's that for a concept?) was that it was devoid of all
the actual cyberspace fingerprints: url's, headers, e-mail
addresses, etc. Those items are the indelible hallmarks of
internet communication (and inextricable aspects of such
communications) and by removing them Winterson
succeeds primarily in creating obscurity in the narrative
flow, to no good end that I could see.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to lick your
own cyberspace stamps." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (10 of 36), Read 47
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 03:47 PM
Okay. My assumption above was clearly wrong to some
extent. The book opens with the tulip fable in "OPEN HARD
DRIVE." (A real attention-getter, I might add. Winterson
clearly wants to establish early on that she can talk dirty
with the best of 'em.)
Then in "terrible thing to do to a flower" we have an
exchange between the "women." This strikes me as an
exchange far more likely to occur in a chat session than via
e-mail, but I'm not going to quibble about that. The other
"woman" (quotation marks because the other "woman"
does not reveal his or her gender) asks Ali for another
story. The "women" clearly end this session by pretending
they are now in Paris.
Now then, it gets really interesting because I interpret
"NEW DOCUMENT" to be another story composed entirely
by Ali including the dialogue between the two "women." In
other words the dialogue in "NEW DOCUMENT" is entirely
composed by Ali. These responses in this chapter are not
the words of the other "woman" and have nothing
whatsoever to do with "her" real life.
The setting of the story is Paris, but they are only there
virtually not in reality (setting aside the whole question of
what is reality for the moment). The other "woman" may or
may not be a woman, "she" may or may not have a
husband she lies to, etc., etc. This whole chapter is
entirely the construct of Ali, the "language costumier."
Am I understanding this correctly? Does anyone agree or
disagree?
I will get to the quality of the writing eventually. Yes, there
are some great lines, but there are also an awful lot of
clinkers from my humble point of view.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (11 of 36), Read 51
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 03:51 PM
Having said all that though, please look at the use of
indents in the dialogue in "NEW DOCUMENT." Some
statements are not indented. (The normal convention is
that each new statement by a different speaker is a new
paragraph and therefore indented.) Most are indented.
What's the significance, if any, of that?
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (12 of 36), Read 47
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sherri Kendrick sheval@hotmail.com
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 05:29 PM
I haven't finished yet so I can't say much, but I don't' really
have the feeling that I'm in a virtual world, I don't have the
computer connection. Don't' know whether this makes a
difference yet or not.
I've read the "texts" as stories Ali is writing for the other
one, so the part in Paris is a story she wrote on her
website, or wherever, that the other can read, not that it's
taking place in a virtual sense.
The dialogs in between I feel are more chat room than
e-mail. And I these sections kind of interrupt the rest for
me.
Sherri
Not all who wander are lost - Tolkien
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (13 of 36), Read 47
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Pres Lancaster plancast@neteze.com
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 05:49 PM
Steve:
Since the book is a construct rather than a coherent
telling, the author hands you the option: Solve the puzzle,
analyse the text, rather than gulp it down whole as you
would a gripping novel. It is just that I preferred to accept
it as the puzzle solved, the pieces assembled into a whole,
curious as the shape was.
pres
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (14 of 36), Read 43
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 06:16 PM
Re: indentations. I don't know what she's doing, but the
system appears to be: each 'section' within a chapter (I
say 'section', meaning one or more paragraphs separated
from the preceding and following (if any) material by
additional white space, ala double-double spacing), is not
indented. All subsequent paragraphs are indented, until
the first paragraph of the next section, usw.
It's a visual thing, apparently, and Winterson seems quite
interested in that aspect of the book.
And I thought the first 26 pages (the tulip smuggling
incident) were by far the finest in the book, followed
closely by the description of Mallory's death. Hmm. Crime,
sex and death -- possibly a guy thing?
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to indent
your own paragraphs." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (15 of 36), Read 39
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sara Sauers stsauers@att.net
Date:
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 10:52 PM
It's pretty common in typesetting to not indent the first
paragraph in a chapter, or the first paragraph after a
"space break," as Dick was describing. I don't think there
are any clues there.
Dick, do you really think you'll see URLs and e-mail
addresses in virtual reality? My idea is that I would see
nothing but a high-definition picture in millions of colors,
and feel like I was in it.
What good is the 'love story' between the two women
that runs through this book if only Ali is writing it? Is it
possible to sweep oneself off one's feet and then be
heartbroken? Steve, is that what you mean?
Is it so 'uncool' to have a reliable narrator these days?
Pres, you have taken an interesting approach to reading
this book. One that takes the wind right out of its sails, I
would say.
Sara
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (16 of 36), Read 50
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Theresa Simpson theresa.a.simpson@gte.net
Date:
Wednesday, January 16, 2002 02:31 AM
I've just started, and am still in Paris with the woman(en)
(I'll be there myself in exactly one month!!) Maybe the
indent thing is related to the way some email programs
stagger a string of messages from various senders?
Theresa, who thought the tulip thing was a bit too silly to
work
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (17 of 36), Read 47
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Bambi Bambi bambi201@hotmail.com
Date:
Wednesday, January 16, 2002 05:11 AM
Not silly.
I must say I was a bit shocked at first, and relieved by the
"Terrible thing to do to a flower." But I like being startled
like that.
bambs
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (18 of 36), Read 43
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Wednesday, January 16, 2002 10:24 AM
Instead of 'silly' I think I would use the word 'precious' to
describe the tulip thing -- although as I said, that opening
bit was my favorite part of the book, there were points
where I did experience a definite concussive sensation as
if I were being struck up along side the head by the author
while she yelled in my ear, "Ya get it?" Sort of like
Margaret Atwood in a playful moment, if such can be
imagined.
And, Sara, I guess I'm not paying close enough attention. I
didn't see these events as occurring in a 'virtual reality' in
the sense of an immersive sensory experience. All I
understood it to be was a text-based interchange, very
much as we're doing here on CR, via e-mail, perhaps on
line chat, etc. As such, and just looking at my own screens,
all of those forms of communication carry with them clues
as to the identity and nature of the experience, and such
clues are intrinsic to the experience.
In my mind, the omission of these clues, amid Winterson's
striving to create a sense of 'on line immediacy' resulted in
more confusion than clarity.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to understand
your own reading material." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (19 of 36), Read 46
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:56 AM
Sara, you say:
Is it possible to sweep oneself off one's feet and then be
heartbroken? Steve, is that what you mean?
That's exactly what I'm wondering. After all, she does say
toward the beginning, "I am the story." Somewhat of a
masturbatory exercise.
One additional comment on this aspect of the work, and
then I'll leave it alone. Again regarding "NEW DOCUMENT"
by way of example, I considered the possibility that as Ali
writes this story about an encounter in Paris, the other
"woman" breaks in occasionally, and they have a little
dialogue. A kind of participatory story. But when you look
closely, this really is not the way it's working.
Same with "spitalfields," too.
By the way, Dick, the inclusion of the online accoutrements
that you suggest would have clarified all this to no end.
One of the many little things that I did like: There is
cyberspace and then there is "meatspace." Therein lies
the rub. I have difficulty determining when we're in
cyberspace and when we're in meatspace, if we ever are.
Giving Winterson the benefit of the doubt, this confusion
may have been exactly what she planned for me.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (20 of 36), Read 41
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Pres Lancaster plancast@neteze.com
Date:
Wednesday, January 16, 2002 01:05 PM
Sara, I didn't (don't) mean to "take the wind right out of its
sails." Even if I had intended it, it would have been a futile
gesture. PB is up and going.
The principal part of PB is the relationship of the two
women, pursued and pursuer, acting out the trust/distrust
part of yielding up one's self to another. Winterson has
distilled this to its essence, and essence comes in small
bottles. The other parts of the book are like the facets of a
perfume bottle - designed to make the contents seem
more glamorous than they would if simply put in a plain
glass vial.
I admire both the reduction of the relationship to an
essence and the cut of the bottle.
pres, rushing to a root canal.
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (21 of 36), Read 35
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sherri Kendrick sheval@hotmail.com
Date:
Wednesday, January 16, 2002 02:28 PM
Pres - I like that description, of the essence and the bottle,
I think that explains a lot of it for me. And maybe that's
why I like the "story" parts better than the connections, I
like the essence over the container.
I think the beginning tulip part was the best of the book
for me(though I'm not quite done)
not so much for the obvious "sex stuff" but because I
found myself curious about what was going to happen as
the charade continued. How long would she be able to
keep up this disguise?
Sherri
Not all who wander are lost - Tolkien
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (22 of 36), Read 37
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Wednesday, January 16, 2002 03:20 PM
I'm no horticulturist, but that musta been one helluva
tough tulip.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to shovel
your own snow." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (23 of 36), Read 35
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Wednesday, January 16, 2002 03:42 PM
I suspect that is part of what Theresa was referring to
when she said that she thought the tulip thing was a bit
too silly to work, Dick.
The author is enamored of the image though. She comes
back to it in "strange:"
Why did I begin as I did, with Ali and the tulip?
I wanted to make a slot in time. To use time fully I use
it vertically. One life is not enough. I use the past as a
stalking horse to come nearer to my quarry.
My quarry is you and I, caught in time, running as fast
as we can.
Been trying to wrap my mind around that one for some
time now.
And then in "QUIT" we get the sequel to the tulip episode.
In part:
Ali's story is not well documented, and the uses found
by the ladies of Holland for this amorous flower have
been kept a close secret.
Which to my way of thinking does not redound to the
great credit of Dutch manhood.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (24 of 36), Read 38
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Wednesday, January 16, 2002 06:06 PM
I blame it on the Dutch beer. 3 bottles of Grolsch, and
you're telling Jennifer Aniston to get her own ride home.
Candidly, though, I think Georgia O'Keefe did the flower
thing better.
And I've not made much more than hundred pages of
progress in Orlando, a pace due to various non-critical but
time-consuming personal and professional crises. But,
even with that introductory dose, I've decided that
Winterson has a ways to go to catch up with Woolf as a
writer (stop the presses, of course).
So, when we gonna talk Winterson aphorisms, which
seems to be her chosen mode of expression? To get in
practice you may want to scan through this site, chock full
of pithy (o.k., not so pithy) mental sound bites. Amazing to
me how much like Winterson Nietszche sometimes sounds
and vice-versa:
http://infonectar.com/aphorisms.html
And here's an interesting quote from an essay on
Winterson's earlier work that seems to me to be smack on
for the novel under discussion:
""There are story-worlds, and there are novel-worlds, and
there are also worlds still to be imagined, waiting at the edge
of all those stories that are spare enough and swift enough to
leave the details of the world-making to us", writes Michael
Wood...in his discussions of Jeanette Winterson. He is talking
about her enthusiasm for aphorism, "that mode which
always means more than it says and always hints at absent
narratives." Absent narratives are certainly something which
abound in Winterson."
Copyright, Nicola Lumsden, 2000; complete text at:
http://www.orangeminds.com/palemovie/literary/storytelling.html
That same essay quotes an earlier work of Winterson (The
Passion) on the telling of stories: ? "I'm telling you stories.
Trust me,..." Isn't that virtually exact line in the present
book as well?
And if this all seems a little fragmented, well, I'll tie it up
eventually.
Trust me.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to explain
your own aphorisms." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (25 of 36), Read 34
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sara Sauers stsauers@att.net
Date:
Wednesday, January 16, 2002 09:48 PM
From Dick's note: I didn't see these events as occurring in a
'virtual reality' in the sense of an immersive sensory
experience.
Okay, I assumed that since Ali seemed so broken up over
this failed relationship with the married woman, that there
would have to have been some kind of "immersion." Other
than e-mail, which I know is now a highly touted 'dating'
tool, but how can you have all that longing and passion in
a story if the lovers never really stand next to each other?
I guess that's my argument, too, against Steve's idea that
this might all be onanistic.
AND on aphorism: "that mode which always means more
than it says and always hints at absent narratives." Absent
narratives are certainly something which abound in
Winterson."
Very nice point -- and it fits with Winterson's "covers" of
literary classics, too. Is she making it easy on herself, or
just reducing the sauce, as Pres suggests?
Sara
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (26 of 36), Read 33
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Wednesday, January 16, 2002 10:46 PM
Georgia O'Keefe denied that she ever intended those
things that we all see in her flowers.
We're going to talk about Winterson's aphorisms right
now, Dick. It is the most striking thing about the style of
this book in my opinion and the most entertaining,
sometimes in ways that I am sure Winterson did not
intend. She takes big risks in this way, and big risks
translate into big successes or big flops. There is no in
between.
Let me start with one I liked:
There is no love that does not pierce the hands and feet.
Neat allusion to Christ. Also, no one who has dealt with an
adolescent child can deny the truth of it. Obviously,
Winterson liked it, too. She repeats it a half dozen times.
A somewhat opaque one--I say "somewhat" because I
feel like I understand it even though I don't:
Love's lengthways splits the heart in two--the heart where
you are, the heart where you want to be.
Shaky:
There is no penance that can calm love and no regret that
can make it bitter.
This does not comport with my experience, but I'm not
going to argue about it.
On the other hand. . .:
Death can change the body but not the heart.
This is simply and blatantly not true. This sounds to me like
one of those beautiful lies that one might tell another with
the hope of getting laid.
I have a couple of favorite paragraphs from this book, but
they are not in the nature of aphorisms. Later on those.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (27 of 36), Read 32
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:03 PM
I have the teeniest, tiniest, sneaking suspicion, however,
that Winterson's aphorisms, at least half the time, are
clever but don't really mean much of anything.
For example,
"In the end one loves one's desire and not what is desired.
Well, actually, I guess that one does mean something,
whether I agree or not. Of course, Nietzsche said it and
not Winterson, but my guess would be that it didn't jump
out at anyone as an obvious distinction in authorship.
How about these:
"The more you let yourself go, the less others let you go."
"Beyond time, beyond death, love is. Time and death cannot
wear it away."
"Mere human love does not satisfy us, though we settle for
it."
"Even the most courageous among us only rarely has the
courage for that which he really knows."
Winterson? Nietzsche? Haggart?
Tune in tomorrow for the amazing answers....
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to play 'Pick
the Aphorism'." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (28 of 36), Read 33
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Theresa Simpson theresa.a.simpson@gte.net
Date:
Thursday, January 17, 2002 01:27 AM
Maybe Winterson is quite aware that most aphorisms,
including her own, don't really mean anything when
dissected? She likes to play around with words, and with
her readers. An aphorism, by definition, "delimits"
something - an idea, generally. The word is related to
horizon. I don't think she's much in favor of boundaries.
As for the tulip prosthesis. Flowers are traditionally a
metaphor for the feminine - either romantic/sentimental (a
la bouquets); or sexual (a la O'Keefe). Maybe Winterson is
subverting the dominant metaphor?
Theresa
Ars longa; vita brevis
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (29 of 36), Read 30
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sherri Kendrick sheval@hotmail.com
Date:
Thursday, January 17, 2002 06:57 AM
Dick already posted the one I liked -
Beyond time
How about - I am a map that you redraw.
She brought up maps earlier - the stories are maps. Maps
of journeys that have been made and might have been
made. A Marco Polo route through territory real or
imagined.
After I finished, I had the sense that I didn't know who
was saying what. It was just an anybody saying these
things. When it was Ali or the other woman I could never
distinguish.
Also her thing about love, she (Ali, Winterson?) seems to
believe that love is the most elusive of emotions, that we
think we know it but we really don't. We delude ourselves
in thinking we understand it. That it is something much
deeper, much more all encompassing than we think.
-Nothing could be more familiar than love. Nothing else
eludes us so completely.
I'm not sure if I liked this book or not. At the moment I
don't have a sense of the story.
Sherri
Not all who wander are lost - Tolkien
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (30 of 36), Read 28
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Thursday, January 17, 2002 08:52 AM
I thought that the section using the map metaphor was
pretty good. I need to go back and read that again
though. In the meantime, Sherri, I suspect that Pres's
remarks above are the key to accepting and enjoying this
book for what it is.
If that is in fact the traditional symbolism of tulips,
Theresa, then clearly she is subverting the dominant
metaphor. Good point.
I have my answer sheet marked, Dick, and waiting to see
whether I'm a winner.
A little good-natured fun with her style is clearly in order.
She does also produce some rather striking passages
though. For example, there is a paragraph in "SEARCH"
that begins, "Your marrow is in my bones." Very cool
passage. I would post it in its entirety, but in it she makes
use of the two antipodal "c" words.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (31 of 36), Read 24
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:22 AM
Those would be, of course, "cranium" and "coccyx"?
And, the answers to the literary puzzler, in order of the
quotes, are: Winterson, Nietzsche, Nietzsche, Winterson. I
think. Maybe I should have taken notes.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to grade your
own exams." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (32 of 36), Read 22
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:26 AM
Whoops. Had that backwards. Winterson's are the two in
the middle, Nietzsche provides the bookends.
Damn, I hate when I outsmart myself.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to shovel
your own snow." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (33 of 36), Read 24
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:38 AM
Damn! I had one of the Nietzsche's as a Haggart.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (34 of 36), Read 25
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:01 AM
Don't feel bad. A lot of people have made that mistake.
Who was it who was waxing ecstatic about Nietzsche
around here recently (or at least within the last year)?
Felix or maybe Dale?
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to shovel
your own snow." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (35 of 36), Read 13
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sara Sauers stsauers@att.net
Date:
Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:39 PM
How are you boys doing with Orlando? How does Woolf
handle the time/space continuum in that one? And does
she put you clearly in the mind/body of a male or female,
or is there gender confusion for the reader, as I would say
there is with Winterson?
I do plan on picking it up myself, I just haven't yet.
Sara
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (36 of 36), Read 14
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:46 PM
It's been so long since I read Orlando I can't add much
comment there, except the memory that it did cruise thru
time, and wasn't there a lot about skating on ice?
I'm enjoying the discussion here. In fact, quite a bit more
than I enjoyed either Orlando or The Powerbook.
Carry on.
Ruth
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy
and taste good with ketchup. Anon.
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (37 of 38), Read 10
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Friday, January 18, 2002 11:50 AM
I rolled right into Orlando and have been interrupted, but
only temporarily. Definitely going to finish it over the
course of this discussion.
Orlando simply lives on. Woolf on time:
But Time, unfortunately, though it makes animals and
vegetables bloom and fade with amazing punctuality, has no
such simple effect upon the mind of man. The mind of man,
moreover, works with equal strangeness upon the body of
time. An hour, once it lodges in the queer element of the
human spirit, may be stretched to fifty or a hundred times its
clock length; on the other hand, an hour may be accurately
represented on the timpepiece of the mind by one second.
Then all of the sudden one morning Orlando was nude and
checking himself out in the mirror, as we all are wont to do
now and again truth be told, and lo and behold, he had
slid over the line and was a she. Gender is a continuum.
While Dick and I are getting in touch with our feminine
sides here, I am sure that neither of us would handle such
a loss with nearly the equanimity that Orlando displays.
Now some may argue that this is not a loss but a gain.
Maybe, but I can't view it that way. This would definitely
ruin my day.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (38 of 38), Read 2
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Friday, January 18, 2002 12:15 PM
Oh, yes, and I had to chuckle. Woolf reproduces a portion
of a ledger itemizing the sumptuous furnishings Orlando
has acquired for his digs when he was still he. The list is
truncated, and there follows this comment:
Already--it is an effect lists have upon us--we are beginning
to yawn. But if we stop, it is only because the catalogue is
tedious, not that it is finished.
I was reminded immediately of the perennial "Last Five
Books I Bought" topic here.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (39 of 41), Read 16
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Friday, January 18, 2002 04:42 PM
Yes, Orlando simply awakes one day to find that his
original GI-issue conjugating apparatus has been
mysterious replaced with the other kind of conjugating
apparatus.
That he (now she) does not, as Steve says, notice this
until examining him/herself naked in a mirror (mirror alert
here; always a Woolf and, hence Winterson, favorite) tells
us perhaps more than we want to know about Woolf's
sexuality or lack thereof. It seems to me that a basic rule
of Darwinian selection would, or at least ought to be:
Those who cannot tell if their genitals and secondary sexual
characteristics are still attached without looking in a mirror,
should not procreate, even in the unlikely event that they are
capable of doing so."
Such a rule is quite contrary, of course, to what Woolf
seems to be telling us in Orlando, namely that who we are
is fundamentally unrelated and independent of, not only
our gender (if not our sexuality, but I'm not sure Virginia
was prepared to go there) but of time itself.
While Winterson was not writing the same story as Woolf,
by any means, there are some common elements, most
visibly the genderial shape-shifting. And, while it seems
clear to me that for some purposes and at some levels
Winterson is riffing on Woolf's Orlando, she is doing so in
the guise of strongly sexual (as in doing lots of screwing)
characters -- something that I did not see in Orlando -- and
that sex-qua-sex (distinct from gender) is important to her
and her story in ways it does not seem to be for Woolf.
But, both books seem to tell us that we exist in
dimensions and ways not defined by the common world of
everyday -- but instead we have, if we choose to
experience them, delimited existences, to borrow
Theresa's word from a number of posts ago (I've been
think about that word ever since you used it, T, and I
finally figured out at least part of what you may have been
getting at).
So, that's what I'm thinking during lunch hour on Friday. It
may well be different by beer-thirty.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to discover
your own sex change in a mirror." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (40 of 41), Read 15
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Pres Lancaster plancast@neteze.com
Date:
Friday, January 18, 2002 07:17 PM
A very nice post, Dick. As you so percipiently say:
"Those who cannot tell if their genitals and secondary sexual
characteristics are still attached without looking in a mirror,
should not procreate, even in the unlikely event that they are
capable of doing so."
You should also perhaps comment on the use of
appropriate gender substitutes, if any. Surely the utilization
of tulips bespeaks a "delimited existence"?
You say:
"But, both books seem to tell us that we exist in
dimensions and ways not defined by the common world of
everyday -- but instead we have, if we choose to
experience them, delimited existences, to borrow
Theresa's word from a number of posts ago . ."
It seems to me that both books are wish/dreams of the
authors - they would choose to live in such worlds,
reflecting their natures, if they could.
Though it is nearly half a century since I read ORLANDO for
the frisson that it had at that time and my age, I still have
a sharp sense of the book. The mirror in that book is for
Victoria Sackville-West and if a mirror can be besotted, it
is.
Here's looking at you through the vermouth washed gin.
pres
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (41 of 41), Read 14
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Friday, January 18, 2002 08:45 PM
Ah, gin. You catch me at an awkward moment, as I am on
an alcohol holiday in an attempt to shed a few unsightly
pounds that stubbornly refuse to give up to the stern
discipline of the gymnasium. Sort of my 'Al Quaeda'
poundage: terrorist fat cells, that stubbornly hold out in
the mountains of my midriff.
As for gender substitutes, I don't know. Personally, I'd go
for something sturdier than a tulip, but the nearly
magical-surrealist aspect of Winterson's opening chapter
clearly seems to work.
I agree with you that Woolf and Winterson's works are
both dreams of imagined possibility, although I think
Woolf's evidences her protean intelligence more clearly
than Winterson's (even assuming her intelligence is on the
same level as Woolf's, which I do not not). For example,
Woolf's musings on time and its relation (or lack of
relation) to consciousness are almost eerily modern.
Surely at the time she wrote, only a couple of decades
after the General Theory became more or less widely
known, it must have been very heady stuff. Winterson, on
the other hand, also plays with expanded or delimited
notions of consciousness, but I think the playing field of
cyberspace is a much less challenging arena than that of
time itself.
Winterson's book has turned out be more interesting to
me than I thought it was the first time through, and one of
the reasons is: reading and thinking about Orlando in
relation to it. As usual, triangulation works best for me.
And while I don't really 'like' Winterson's book,
thought-provoking and interesting are not bad
second-place finishes. Nor, do I think she's the creative
force that Virginia Woolf was -- but hell, that's no criticism
at all.
Damn, a scotch would taste good now. But, soon I will be
thinner, and on that day, the scotch will be even older. So
everything in its time.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to delimit
your own consciousness without benefit of scotch
whiskey." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (42 of 87), Read 60
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 04:13 PM
Well, now! A veritable feast here in these last three, Dick and
pres. (A fitting metaphor as you will soon see.)
pres, I have turned back again and again to your No. 5 above. It
was a perceptive review of this book, brief and to the point.
Upon reflection, you are clearly right. The cyber presentation
was beside the point. You were correct also in assessing what is
enjoyable about the book (or at least interesting, Dick), but yes,
it is weak on the characterizations.
One of the major differences between this one and Orlando is
that in the latter there is the very separate voice of the
omniscient narrator commenting on the action, many times with
an ironical tone. Winterson's book is in the first person in
spades, and a very self-obsessed first person, I think it's fair to
say.
On a slightly different subject, I myself am not food-obsessed,
but food-obsessed people interest me. A socially acceptable
addiction, and in many cases it seems so to me because the
fundamental urges for food and for sex have somehow gotten all
mixed up.
The narrator is one of these, and she glories in it--tells us right
up front. For example:
She and I had walked without speaking, back over the Pont
Neuf, to a little triangle of grass and birch trees set on all sides
with small restaurants. I like to eat here. Someone once called it
"the sex of Paris."
and
The artichoke arrived and I began to peel it away, fold by fold,
layer by layer, dipping it. There is no secret about eating
artichoke, or what the act resembles. Nothing else gives itself up
so satisfyingly towards its center. Nothing else promises and
rewards. The tiny hairs are part of the pleasure.
and
The waitress cleared the plates and brought us some brown and
yellow banded ice cream, the same color as the ceilings and
walls. It even had the varnishy look of the 1930s. The cherries
round the edges were like Garbo kisses. You speared one and
fed it to me.
and then we have a full-blown recipe for salsa di pomodori, and
I'll be damned if this recipe does not evolve into a metaphor for
these women's sexual affair.
This is all just fine with me, but what I don't care for is food
name-dropping. I happen to know what haricots verts are, and I
must say that "green beans" would have done as well. Plebeian
that I am, however, I am not familiar with torta Caprese or
bresaola with rocket nor do I know what is distinctive about
buffalo mozzarella. A little insight on these things would have
been nice, and without it one is left with the feeling that the
author (or the narrator if you prefer) is a little too proud of her
culinary sophistication. It's off-putting to me.
Steve
A hot dog at the ballpark is better than a steak at the
Ritz. --Bogart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (43 of 87), Read 62
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 04:47 PM
Steve: She wasn't writing for Cedar Rapids. Or Anchorage, now
that I think about it.
And, not knowing anything about buffalo mozzarella myself, I
looked it up. Son of a gun, if it really isn't buffalo mozzarella, as
in that big critter with the horns that Indians shoot with arrows?
How seldom are things what they first appear.
http://www.gustolatte.com/eng/index.htm
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to buffalo your
own mozzarella." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (44 of 87), Read 59
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 04:49 PM
Okay, okay. Good point, Dick.
Praise the internet! A torta Caprese is what we here in Cedar
Rapids call a goddamned chocolate cake with walnut chunks in it.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (45 of 87), Read 60
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 04:50 PM
Think our posts kinda got flip-flopped there, what with the editing
and all, but we're getting the word out.
Would it be fair to call this one a 'chick book', what with the
recipes and the vagino-form Parisian islands? I may be jumping
to conclusions, but I'm just not getting a 'Pappy' feel out of this.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to shovel your
own snow." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (46 of 87), Read 56
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 04:58 PM
I don't think so. . .well, obviously not. Not very many chicks
here discussing it.
I think it partakes more of that handy phrase we coined not too
long ago around here, a "dick book." I could have used a bit
more detail in certain respects though.
You know, it occurs to me that this book bears less resemblance
to Orlando than it does to Graham Greene's End of the Affair.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (47 of 87), Read 59
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 04:50 PM
I sort of feel bad for the guy who has to milk the buffalo. Tricky
job, I bet.
Beej
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (48 of 87), Read 58
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 04:52 PM
Now the posts are unflip-flopped. How does he do that?
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to shovel your
own snow." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (49 of 87), Read 57
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 04:58 PM
Come to find out, milking Bubalus bubalis is a big thing
internationally. Only natural that I was among the last to know.
http://www.cgiar.org/ilri/dbtw-wpd/fulldocs/smhdairy/06mud.htm
And a picture, even:
I love mozzarella, incidentally.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to shovel your
own snow." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (50 of 87), Read 54
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 05:03 PM
Although the more I look at that picture, the more I'm thinking,
Bufalus bufalis is not the same critter as Bison bison.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to shovel your
own snow." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (51 of 87), Read 58
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 05:07 PM
Yep. Looks like one of those Asian models to me as opposed to a
Ted Turner model.
I have to admit that I have a soft spot for mozzarella, too. In
fact I started to compose a little encomium to mozzarella to post
here. . .you know, the warmth of it, the creamy smooth
whiteness of it. . .but I got so turned on that I had to abandon
the effort.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (52 of 87), Read 58
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 05:09 PM
Is a bison as big as a buffalo? The woman and the whateveritis,
look to be about the same size.
(I thought a bison and a buffalo were the same thing.)
Beej
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (53 of 87), Read 58
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 05:17 PM
It's just a very, very large woman. If they would have parked a
Volkswagen Beetle next to the woman milking the buffalo for the
purpose of giving us a better idea of scale, it would have been
helpful in that regard.
And just to flesh this all out completely, bresaola is a cold cut,
beef rubbed with spices and air-cured in the Valtellina, a long
Alpine valley in Lombardy. Now all I have to figure out is rocket
leaf.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (54 of 87), Read 53
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 05:26 PM
Of course, you'd want a very, very large woman when milking a
buffalo. Imagine, for example, gail singer, trying to milk a
buffalo? I don't think it would be a pretty picture.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to milk your own
buffalo." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (55 of 87), Read 55
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 05:35 PM
Or me! I used to milk Jersey cattle in my youth, a breed
considerably smaller than Holsteins and veritable lap dogs
compared to buffaloes. Those gals took advantage of me
physically. They are very beautiful creatures though.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (56 of 87), Read 44
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 06:09 PM
What a terrible story, Steve. And I was feeling sorry for those
kids who were molested by the de-frocked priest -- who knew
we had a man right among us, who, as a lad, was victimized by
herds of Jersey cows with swollen mammaries?
It is amazing to me just how many, many doors a book can
open for you. I will always remember reading Winterson for that
reason alone.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to [shudder]
milk your own cows." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (57 of 87), Read 48
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Barbara Moors bar647@aol.com
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 05:47 PM
I think Winterson succeeded in getting the feel of the Internet
and I actually think I prefer that to something that would try to
bring in the specific details (email addresses, etc.). I felt like I
could have been on-line in the middle of successive nights, the
unreality of it.
I have to admit that some of my favorite parts of this were the
descriptions of places in Europe. We were in Paris and Capri this
past summer and she took me back there totally. Again, she had
the sense of it nailed particularly Anacapri.
When we read The Passion (last year?), I felt that I wasn't
reading something that connected with me at a gut level (Munro
would be an example of that feeling) but something that made
me stretch and that stayed with me. The Powerbook has many
moments like that, but doesn't sustain it throughout. At times,
she's just a bit too glib. I thought that the reference to "the sex"
of Paris and the hairs on the artichoke were a few of those
moments.
My brother has been recommending Sexing the Cherry, an early
Winterson, for years. I am going to nominate it for next year's
reading list since we've now read two of her latest.
Barb
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (58 of 87), Read 41
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 07:13 PM
Rocket is arugula, Steve. And in case arugula hasn't penetrated
to deepest Iowa -- its a salad green. Slightly bitter whang to it.
Ruth
"Writing is like prostitution. First you do it for the love of it, then
you do it for a few friends, then you do it for money." Moliere
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (59 of 87), Read 40
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 07:43 PM
We may be country boys, Ruth, but we read The New Yorker, so
we know people have been giggling about arugula for dog years.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to shovel your
own snow." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (60 of 87), Read 37
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 07:55 PM
Well Steve was asking, Dick, Steve was asking.
Ruth
"Writing is like prostitution. First you do it for the love of it, then
you do it for a few friends, then you do it for money." Moliere
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (61 of 87), Read 37
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 08:06 PM
And, I also wanted to say how greatful I was for Steve
prompting me to look up 'buffalo mozzarella'. I naturally (or at
least naturally for me) assumed that 'buffalo' was probably some
Italian word and that I would ultimately find some exotic Italian
variety of cheese, pronounced of course, BOO-FAL´-LOW.
You can imagine how much embarrassment I've been saved.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to shovel your
own snow." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (62 of 87), Read 36
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Pres Lancaster plancast@neteze.com
Date:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 08:26 PM
My experience in reading Powerbook was the same as BARB's in
so far as the places referred to were concerned. Even the train
station scenes, and I feel that Hell must have a lot of train
stations.
I thought the food references were meant to be both sexy and
"smart" - right off the menus of those BE SEEN HERE restaurants
that sprout every day. For the purpose of the feel of the affair,
Just right.
And writing about BSH restaurants, I remember being in NY in
1942 and having an army buddy take me to a veddy
sophisticated bar with veddy sophisticated piano music - owned
by Cole Porter. *
*Have scanned a fair amount of Porter biographical material but
have found no reference to it.
pres
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (63 of 87), Read 55
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Theresa Simpson theresa.a.simpson@gte.net
Date:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 01:08 AM
Steve and Dick managed to crack me up. I'd like to see anyone
try to milk a bison, which is a very, very different beast than a
buffalo (it was a misappellation which led to calling bison
"buffalo" - much like calling NAs "Indians.")
How about a nice plate of some sliced buffalo mozzarella and
perfectly ripe tomatoes, lots of chopped fresh basil, some black
pepper, and a little bit of olive oil drizzled over all, eaten on a
sunny patio with a glass of red wine and some chewy bread?
And a bowl of good olives on the side. Yum! No wonder
Winterson confuses food and sex (if she does, which I doubt,
there being of course a difference between confusion and
intentional metaphor.)
Theresa
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (64 of 87), Read 36
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 11:35 AM
pres, you sure that your pal didn't just take you to the main bar
in the Waldorf? Cole Porter was a regular there, and the last
time I checked in--some time ago--his grand piano with round
water stains from his martini glass was still there.
And pres, Winterson did do a very good job with her descriptions
of place.
Thanks, Ruthie. Rocket and arugula had passed me by. Sara
knew what it was, too. I suppose I should pay more attention.
When the waiter rolls into that long, elaborate litany describing
the makings in the specials, I always space off.
"Hi. My name is Biff, and I will be your server this evening."
"Great news, Biff! My name is Steve, and I will be your customer
this evening. Another Beefeater martini up with olives for me,
please. Tell the rest of these folks about all the stuff in the
specials."
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (65 of 87), Read 37
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 11:49 AM
After the neat little lecture on bacteria, evolution, DNA, and the
juxtaposition of sex and death, we get this:
She looked at me like I'm crazy. Most of my lovers do, and
that's partly why they love me, and partly why they leave. I'm
not being completely honest here because I do the leaving
myself sometimes.
Perhaps those lovers sensed something obsessive in the
narrator's personality. Sometimes people look at other people
like they're crazy because they are crazy. Ali seems to me
one of those folks who cannot accept a little toss in the hay for
what it is. Sex must be done in the context of a "great and
ruinous" love or it ain't sex. Delusions follow.
All I'm saying is that there is a very troubling aspect of the
narrator's personality. This has everything to do with the title of
the book, too, by the way.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (66 of 87), Read 38
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 12:02 PM
Excellent point about the title.
And I agree that the real, as opposed to superficial, similarities
between Orlando and The Powerbook are minimal. Interesting
that the critics keep bringing up Orlando as a point of
comparison, indicating perhaps that they don't really know what
else to say.
Woolf brings two things to the party that are largely missing
form Winterson: a relatively full and interesting characterization
of the protagonist, and a sense of humor. Her description of the
legal process by which Orlando's inheritance (as a woman) was
finally confirmed by Lord Palmerston had me in stitches.
But I thought the OJ trial was pretty funny too, so maybe it's a
lawyer thing.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to shovel your
own snow." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (67 of 87), Read 38
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 12:13 PM
There is humor in Winterson. It is found in the dialogue.
"When should we meet?"
"How about the Middle Ages?"
It is the humor of glib repartée. My taste in humor coincides
more with yours, Dick.
The whole plot here reminded my of my pal, Rande. Some time
ago Rande was drowning his sorrows after the end of an affair.
After babbling the usual for awhile, he turned his sodden face to
me and said, "The bitch left me before I was ready to leave
her!" Serious he was. Therein lay the tale of a broken heart.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (68 of 87), Read 40
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Barbara Moors bar647@aol.com
Date:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 12:13 PM
I think Winterson is most successful when she writes in a fable
sort of form. That was very much the feeling I had in The
Passion which I think I liked better than this one. And, it's the
form she takes in my favorite parts of this book, those that don't
directly deal with her own love affair.
Is the part at the end about searching through the rooms of the
house based on something in Orlando? I liked that very much.
Barb
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (69 of 87), Read 39
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 01:27 PM
The fably stuff is exactly what puts me off, Barb. But then that
may be my particular aversion to fable (which I find distancing)
rather than Winterson's writing.
Ruth
"Writing is like prostitution. First you do it for the love of it, then
you do it for a few friends, then you do it for money." Moliere
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (70 of 87), Read 39
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 02:36 PM
Usually, I would be right in your camp on this fable stuff, Ruthie,
but that is because I have little patience with talking animals. In
fact talking goddamned animals drive me nuts. Talking
goddamned animals always try to foist the most inane stuff on
us. Winterson doesn't partake of that.
Which brings me to the question of whether we are using the
right word when we use the word "fable" when discussing this
book. The story of the red fox and the tulip tale, I suppose, are
fables, what with the magical aspect. However, the rest of these
are based on legendary love stories. Would "legend" be a better
word when referring to those?
Whatever, I actually did very much enjoy her rendition of the
Lancelot and Guinevere story with Paolo and Francesca a close
second. And they were all mercifully short.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (71 of 87), Read 45
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 02:43 PM
I'll be the first to admit that I found this book really confusing.
Sometimes when a book confuses me, I'll sit back and wonder
whether that was the author's intent. Maybe, this is one of those
times.
Perhaps the reason Winterson didn't include all those cyber
headings (e-mail...doc.--etc.) is because the worlds of reality
and fantasy were supposed to meld. I think it's what made the
book so ethereal. Weren't these characters told that the price of
entering these fantasies was that they would leave as different
people than they were before entering? I played with the thought
that they, ever after, became in reality the person they were in
the fantasy.
In essence, they were eternally 'damned' to the fantasy.
Maybe?
Beej
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (72 of 87), Read 45
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 02:54 PM
Without writing it out, I think there could be a real play on the
word 'Tulips' too, that would point directly to a blurring of the
genders. But maybe (maybe not) that would be stretching it a
bit..(I'm trying hard to keep an open mind here, is all.)
Beej
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (73 of 87), Read 37
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Barbara Moors bar647@aol.com
Date:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 04:06 PM
Good points, Steve, she definitely is mixing the two here. I liked
the two short legends you mentioned too.
Beej, you've got a really interesting idea. The narrator certainly
puts a lot of emphasis on this notion that you will be forever
changed after this experience. Actually, as I went back to reread
those first few pages, I am struck again by these words:
Undress.
Take off your clothes. Take off your body. Hang them up behind
the door. Tonight we can go deeper than disguise.
That is the potential of this faceless Internet. It doesn't mean
"undress" in a sexual context necessarily. You can actually take
off your self, become someone else. But, when you try to go
back to it, are you somehow permanently altered?
I also realized on reread that the narrator gets the email that
says Freedom, just for one night. I thought that she was the
language costumier, not someone else.
Barb
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (74 of 87), Read 31
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Mary Anne Papale mapreads@aol.com
Date:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 09:30 PM
There were times when I felt that Winterson was recording her
dreams rather than creating email stories. It seemed as though
she woke up and recorded her dreams on her laptop in journal
form. In fact, the whole thing seemed quite dreamlike to me.
Which reminds me, Steve and Dick. In Orlando, the sex change
is noticed in the mirror, but it seems to have occurred during a
long, heavy sleep.
No one has mentioned the Muck family story. Was that supposed
to be Winterson's own family? Lots of Wilderness and poisoned
potions, and no love for the written word.
I agree, Barb, that this is not going to stay with me the way The
Passion did.
MAP
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (75 of 87), Read 31
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 10:31 PM
Yeah, MAP, I think Orlando slept for like an ethereal week or
something while his old parts atrophied and his new ones grew.
Kind of a caterpillar into a butterfly thing is how I saw it. Or
perhaps like Venus being coughed up out of one of those giant
seashells in an 18th century painting. But tasteful.
Anyway, trust me on this: one of the very first things most men
would notice first thing in the morning, before they even thought
about rolling out of bed, would be a sex-change operation.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to shovel your
own snow." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (76 of 87), Read 39
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Theresa Simpson theresa.a.simpson@gte.net
Date:
Monday, January 21, 2002 01:26 AM
You guys. You know about virtual realities, and MUDs, right?
Participants adopt/create personas in fantasy worlds/stories
online, the personas grow personalities which then behave and
react according to type? All the thing in the early net? I do
believe that's what is going on in Powerbook - not a discussion,
as here, or email correspondence. Put this book in the context of
a MUD, and what we know about how MUDs operate, and it all
makes sense.
Now there are avatars, too - moving beyond text.
Theresa
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (77 of 87), Read 29
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Barbara Moors bar647@aol.com
Date:
Monday, January 21, 2002 10:17 AM
I never heard of them being referred to as MUDS, Theresa, or
being organized into a specific fantasy. I definitely missed that.
But, I have known lots of people who adopt a whole different
personality, age, even gender, when they are on-line and that's
what this reminded me of. That's why I liked that section that I
quoted about taking off your body.
Mary Anne, I'm delighted to see you posting on this. Did you
nominate it? I was interested in your reaction to it.
I wondered about the Muck family too and kept thinking that
there was more symbolism there and tie-in to the story than I
was getting. I read Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit, which is her
semiautobiography, a long time ago. I don't remember her
parents' profession, but I do remember that they were
fundamentalist Christians, Pentacostals, I think. And, I seem to
remember that they were very opposed to any bookreading
apart from the Bible.
Barb
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (78 of 87), Read 30
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, January 21, 2002 12:05 PM
This totally went by me, too. What does MUD actually stand for?
Ruth
"Writing is like prostitution. First you do it for the love of it, then
you do it for a few friends, then you do it for money." Moliere
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (79 of 87), Read 33
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Monday, January 21, 2002 12:30 PM
I don't know what a MUD is either, but I take it that this is an
acronym for one of those roll playing games.
Right now Beej has me too busy playing anagrams with the
letters of the word "tulips" to worry about it. But I think maybe
she is suggesting that it is a pun on "two lips." Maybe.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (80 of 87), Read 34
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Mary Anne Papale mapreads@aol.com
Date:
Monday, January 21, 2002 12:43 PM
Yes, Barb, I did nominate this book. I admit to a shameless
attempt at getting votes, as we were all still awash in the glow of
the discussion of The Passion at the time. Like you, I am
somewhat disappointed, but I'm willing to read other Winterson
works.
MAP
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (81 of 87), Read 38
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Monday, January 21, 2002 01:47 PM
MUD is the acronym for 'multi-user domain', that originated in
on-line, text based fantasy/adventure game environments. Here
is an essay that discusses some of the psychological aspects of
going on line to pose as a cross-dressing elf or genderially
altered orc:
http://www.netaxs.com/~jamesiii/mud.htm
As you can see, many of the concepts are common with
Winterson's novel. Being somewhat familiar with MUD's,
however, her presentation of the experience does not in my
opinion, portray a MUD experience. It is, at most, analogous.
Perhaps I'm being too much of a techie here, but I find all the
identifying paraphenalia of the internet (url's, command line
interface symbols, etc.) to be rather like street signs: they tell
me where I am. It's interesting that some readers find
Winterson's descriptive vignettes (which taken individually are
almost all very well done and interesting) as being suggestive of
computer experience. To me they are not, for the reasons
stated. And, it seems unlikely to me that if Winterson had not
been explicit about the story unfolding in some sort of
cyberspace context that many readers would have figured that
out.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to make your
own MUD." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (82 of 87), Read 35
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Monday, January 21, 2002 02:22 PM
I have to agree, Dick.
From MUDs to Muck Midden, the portion of the book that I liked
the least.
It was my father. He put his face close to mine, and I could
smell the sulphur on him.
"Never touch that jar. Never. If that ever gets loose we're
finished.
"What is it?"
"Love," said my father, "There's love in that jar."
And so I discovered that love is a hazardous liquid.
Shades of Pandora's box, but gosh, this is weak. And as if this
weren't enough, then we're off to look for buried treasure.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (83 of 87), Read 34
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, January 21, 2002 02:50 PM
Right on the nose, Dick. And you, too, Steve.
Ruth
"Writing is like prostitution. First you do it for the love of it, then
you do it for a few friends, then you do it for money." Moliere
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (84 of 87), Read 33
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sherri Kendrick sheval@hotmail.com
Date:
Monday, January 21, 2002 04:54 PM
I had read Oranges a long time ago, and liked it, which was why
I tried this one. But this was a little disappointing.
Even after all this discussion, I still don't have the feeling of
cyberspace. The gender stuff never bothered me, but I never
quite felt there was really 2 people, it felt more like stories one
person was telling, and trying to connect together into
something.
I like the idea Winterson was trying, but it didn't seem to work
for me.
I've never read Orlando, but I have read other Woolf books, and
on principle would say Orlando is the much better book.
Sherri
Not all who wander are lost - Tolkien
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (85 of 87), Read 33
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Monday, January 21, 2002 05:25 PM
Given her somewhat straightened circumstances in childhood (as
referenced in the opening post), I was wondering if the Muck
Midden piece wasn't a bit of an autobiographical swipe at her
own (possibly) despised antecedents. Unlike the rest of the
book, that section seemed almost personal.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to shovel your
own snow." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (86 of 87), Read 28
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, January 21, 2002 05:30 PM
I liked Oranges, too, Sherri. But, unlike a lot of people here, I
disliked The Passion with a Passion.
Ruth
"Writing is like prostitution. First you do it for the love of it, then
you do it for a few friends, then you do it for money." Moliere
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (87 of 87), Read 16
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Theresa Simpson theresa.a.simpson@gte.net
Date:
Tuesday, January 22, 2002 03:26 AM
A funny story about MUDs. Way back when, a male acquaintance
mentioned the Lambda MUD to me. I had not heard of this MUD
at the time, but had heard of a gay rights group called Lambda.
Remember, I was living in the Bay Area at the time, and I
thought this was a round-about way of his coming out of the
closet to me. For at least six months thereafter, I had this
(straight) guy fixed in my mind as gay. I interacted with him as
if he were a gay man - I can't say specifically what the
difference was, but it was definitely there.
Only to find out, LambdaMUD is an extremely popular complex
role-playing MUD with nothing to do with gay rights. I believe it
is still going strong, but has a long, long waiting list to "get in."
Theresa
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (88 of 91), Read 21
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Tuesday, January 22, 2002 11:06 AM
Makes sense, Teresa. There certainly is some role playing going
on in this book.
Dick, I suspect that you're quite right that there is probably an
autobiographical angle to the Muck Midden section. Part of my
reaction to it arises out of my dislike of one of life's general
rules, which is. . . . . .anything the kid does right redounds to the
kid's own credit, but any problems the kid encounters are the
parents' fault.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (89 of 91), Read 24
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Tuesday, January 22, 2002 12:41 PM
I think Winterson's (or the narrator's) unconcealed disdain for
Muck Midden is of a piece with her name-dropping embrace of
French food. It is not a terribly attractive picture, and one hopes
for the sake of her parents it is an artistic construct and not a
reflection of an inner reality.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to spend much
time around your own children." -- Dick Haggart
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (90 of 91), Read 27
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Tuesday, January 22, 2002 01:09 PM
This illustrates another thing that I find interesting about this
book. Usually, I have no problem keeping the author and the
narrator separate in my mind. Not here. I continually assume
that this is Winterson speaking rather than some narrator she
has invented. I notice that Barb has done this, too. Not quite
sure why that is. Maybe I learned too much about Winterson
studying her beautifully done official web site.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (91 of 91), Read 19
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Theresa Simpson theresa.a.simpson@gte.net
Date:
Wednesday, January 23, 2002 01:09 AM
Very funny. Original, too!
Theresa
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (92 of 92), Read 5
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Wednesday, January 23, 2002 10:03 AM
I took a little time to browse the archived discussion of The
Passion, a Winterson book that several people have mentioned
in this topic, usually in a detrimental comparison to The
Powerbook. What a bunch of raves by the Constant Readers
about that one! I will have to take a look.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (93 of 97), Read 28
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Wednesday, January 23, 2002 01:58 PM
I am convinced that Winterson read Sex and the Origins
of Death by William R. Clark and was quite taken with it.
Again back to this section:
In the strange dark history of our evolution, there was a
drift, inevitably, away from self-reproducing organisms--like
bacteria--towards organisms which must fuse with one
another to survive.
You see, bacteria know the secret of eternal life. They do not
die unless something kills them. They don't change, they
don't age, all they do is multiply. . . .
So those morbid medievals and those burning Romantic
poets weren't wrong. Sex and death belong together, joined
in our imaginations as they are in our DNA.
That's the whole subject of Clark's book, isn't it? But
bacteria do change, and very rapidly, don't they? Perhaps
she intended to say that an individual bacterium does not
change.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (94 of 97), Read 30
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Wednesday, January 23, 2002 02:00 PM
Yep, that's my understanding. They change to save their
asses. Which is more than humans do.
Ruth
"Writing is like prostitution. First you do it for the love of it,
then you do it for a few friends, then you do it for money."
Moliere
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (95 of 97), Read 31
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Wednesday, January 23, 2002 02:11 PM
The subject of that book fascinated me, too, as described
by Bo over in the "Favorite Science Books" topic. I was
considering reading it. Then I read Earl Dennis's extended
review of it on amazon.com wherein he states as follows:
There are probably about a dozen absolutely astounding facts
in the anals of science and physics that bring perspective to
the wacky world of reality.
Now I'm not so sure I want to go there.
Steve
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (96 of 97), Read 28
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Wednesday, January 23, 2002 02:55 PM
Not up to a little proctological perspective, huh?
Ruth
"Writing is like prostitution. First you do it for the love of it,
then you do it for a few friends, then you do it for money."
Moliere
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (97 of 97), Read 17
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Barbara Moors bar647@aol.com
Date:
Wednesday, January 23, 2002 09:59 PM
Steve, I'm sure there is a bit of autobiographical stuff
woven into the Muck family account and I agree that it is
one of the weakest parts of the book. That "love"
passage is a great example. Oranges gave me the sense
that she had good reason for bitterness but that certainly
didn't motivate her toward great writing here.
Barb
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (98 of 101), Read 22
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
S.F. Strahan
Date:
Monday, February 04, 2002 01:20 PM
I finally got around to reading this small, slight book
yesterday. I didn't like the way the book was padded out
to look like a much longer book than it actually was. Let's
face it, this should have been a 100 page novella.
Also, I didn't find the whole cyberspace thing convincing.
The only reason we know that these stories are being
written and sent by e-mail is because she tells us
periodically (which interrupts the flow of the narrative
which has already way too many problems with flow). The
dialogue in particular is very non-email and really like chat.
I thought the dialogue sections were really weak and trite.
I sometimes have dialogues in e-mail in which specific
paragraphs are repeated and answered with layers upon
layers as the messages go back and forth, but that's
nothing like this. The cyberspace conceit seems sort of
tacked on to make the book contemporary and hip (too
uncool and archaic if these were letters and phone calls).
This reads like cyberspace done by someone who hasn't
actually spent any time in cyberspace.
Which brings me to the aphorisms that were discussed
earlier. While reading the discussion of them I was
reminded that while reading the book I kept thinking that
all those short seemingly clever, but rather meaningless
lines would make good sig files. So, perhaps that's the
part of e-mail correspondence that has made the most
impact on Winterson...those tag lines. At times it seems
like she is trying to construct a novel out of e-mail tag
lines.
The tulip story at the beginning, even though I knew it
was a fable, just seemed too contrived and ridiculous to
really work.
Reading this book I had the feeling that I'd read
something like it before only done a hundred times better.
The best comparison I could come up with was that The
Powerbook was almost a cross between Nicholson Baker's
Vox and Italo Calvino's If On A Winter Night A Traveler, in
which the result mangles and degrades the excellent style
and depth of both.
Ultimately I feel like Winterson is trying to fool us into
thinking that this is some sort of book with power and
depth but she's nowhere good enough to pull off a "style
over substance" coup.
The idea of The Powerbook has a lot of potential, but the
whole thing falls flat because despite some nicely written
vignettes, she just can't make us care about this couple
and their all-too-familiar relationship problems.
Just my two cents...
~~Susan~~
"Then would you read a Sustaining Book, such as would
help and comfort a Wedged Bear in Great Tightness?"
---Winnie The Pooh
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (99 of 101), Read 21
times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dale Short dshort@bham.rr.com
Date:
Monday, February 04, 2002 03:09 PM
Susan: Wow...your comments on THE POWERBOOK state
my own concerns about the narrative more articulately
than I could have. I agree with you 100%.
In fact, I held off posting my immediate response to the
book because I was afraid it would sound too flip. Had I
been reviewing THE POWERBOOK, I would have called it,
"funny, erotic, thought-provoking, and intelligent, but
unfortunately never all at once."
I think Winterson's intelligence actually works against her
considerable narrative skill. Many of her riffs are way too
cerebral for me. I know she's capable of writing wonderful
sensory-rich fantasy, though, because her THE PASSION
totally floored me.
Most disappointing of all, to me, in POWERBOOK, was the
whole cyberspace conceit. As you say, I never felt the
least bit like I was in cyberspace while reading the book,
and never felt that the author had any emotional feel for it
beyond the most rudimentary aspects.
What this book makes me want to do is to go back and
re-read Winterson's nonfiction collection ART OBJECTS,
which I thought was a real tour de force of ideas written
with energy and style.
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (100 of 101), Read
20 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Ann Davey davey@tconl.com
Date:
Monday, February 04, 2002 04:00 PM
Dale,
I really, really liked The Passion, but I've held off reading
The Powerbook because of all the negative reaction here.
Your viewpoint was especially interesting to me because
you also liked The Passion. Interesting. How could she go
so far wrong?
This is a question for someone who has read most of her
earlier books: has she just said all she had to say in her
previous novels?
Topic:
The Powerbook by Jeanette Winterson (101 of 101), Read
17 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org
Date:
Tuesday, February 05, 2002 02:09 PM
Yep. A well-thought-out and well-stated critique, Susan.
A Bambi Bambi swooped us in the other topic with this:
I've noticed some of you find some of her work rather
incomprehensible. I think it's because she's experimenting.
And it's rather the emotional stuff that get's confusing when
it's not "in your language". You're either moved by it ore [sic]
not.
I was kinda hoping she would stick around and help us,
but she swooped right on outa here. Upon further
reflection though, "you're either moved by it or not" pretty
much says it all. I found The Powerbook to be an interesting
endeavor, but I can't say that I was moved by it at all. End
of story, I guess.
Steve
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Jeanette Winterson
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