Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (1 of 6), Read 20 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Sunday, June 24, 2001 10:07 PM
I'm about halfway through this, and thoroughly enjoying it. If it's
lacking just a bit in the migodwhatawonderfulphrase department, it
makes up for it in the sincerity department.
This is one Updike I'd never heard of before it was mentioned
here. Does anyone know where it fits chronologically within his
works?
Ruth
"We are each of us like our little blue planet, hung in black space,
upheld by nothing but our mutual reassurances, our loving lies."
John Updike
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (2 of 6), Read 16 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Sara Sauers (stsauers@att.net)
Date:
Monday, June 25, 2001 07:25 AM
Ruth, I think this one comes almost right in the middle between
RABBIT, RUN and RABBIT REDUX.
I've noticed that Updike often makes his main male character
about his own age at the time of his writing - or at least within 10
years or so.
I read OF THE FARM in an extended sitting a week or so ago and
liked it very much. I will say more when I know you are done.
Sara
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (3 of 6), Read 11 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Monday, June 25, 2001 09:17 AM
It certainly stands in stark contrast to The Witches of Eastwick,
doesn't it, Ruthie?
Steve
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (4 of 6), Read 12 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Monday, June 25, 2001 09:45 AM
Ruth, Unlike you, I thought this novella was packed with beautifully
turned phrases.
What a treat this book was. I think, of all the Updike stories I've
recently read, this one 'strips' the characters more than the others.
There's an emotional 'nakedness' here. I think the most striking
point made is that we never really break free from the captivity of
our parents and our upbringing. I know I'm struggling here, but
I've just now finished reading OTF and haven't had time to sort my
thoughts, but I think this book has a lot to do with freedom, or the
lack thereof, at a real gut level.
I'll gather my thoughts a bit better and be back.
Beej
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (5 of 6), Read 13 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Monday, June 25, 2001 09:55 AM
I wanted to add, in Conversations With Updike (yes, I'm pushing
this little book...it deserves it) Updike says on more than one
occasion that Of The Farm is really..at least in his mind..a follow up
to The Centaur. I may go pick this up at the library later today just
to see for myself what he means.
Beej
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (6 of 6), Read 8 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Monday, June 25, 2001 10:39 AM
Now that my thoughts have solidified a tiny bit, I also think this is a
story of time and tenses.. how past, present and future do not
really exist separately from one another, no matter how much we
would like them to do so.
Beej
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (7 of 15), Read 16 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Monday, June 25, 2001 12:32 PM
I finished last night.
Yes, Beej, the book is, as you say, "packed with beautifully turned phrases,"
but they seem far more subtle to me than some of Updike's other writing,
more integrated into the flow perhaps. Less a sense of JU himself, executing
a quadruple verbal axel and looking out of the corner of his eye for the
applause.
"Naked" is a good way to describe these characters. I kept thinking "honest."
This is an honest book. Almost no reliance on the fireworks of sex and
adultery (except the affair which resulted in Joey's marrying Peggy). This is
nitty gritty stuff.
Stevo, this is much more up my alley than witches.
Sara? About the ending?
Ruth
"We are each of us like our little blue planet, hung in black space, upheld by
nothing but our mutual reassurances, our loving lies." John Updike
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (8 of 15), Read 10 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Monday, June 25, 2001 02:36 PM
Ruth, Have you read The Centaur? I picked this up because I really want to
see how it ties into Of The Farm.
I feel other's interest in Updike might be waning a bit, but I warn you, I'm in
this until the end.
Beej
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (9 of 15), Read 11 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Monday, June 25, 2001 02:48 PM
No, I haven't read the Centaur.
You're in this until the end? Woman, do you realize how much JU has written?
Ruth
"We are each of us like our little blue planet, hung in black space, upheld by
nothing but our mutual reassurances, our loving lies." John Updike
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (10 of 15), Read 14 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Monday, June 25, 2001 04:59 PM
I know I can read faster than he can write..Eventually I should catch up!
right?
Beej
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (11 of 15), Read 14 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Monday, June 25, 2001 05:02 PM
Beej: I'm rooting for you! He's written "only" 50 books, I think, so you've
polished off some 10% of his output in the past several weeks alone. {G}
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (12 of 15), Read 16 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Monday, June 25, 2001 05:10 PM
Well, I have to read SOMETHING! Why not the best?
As I read on with Conversations With Updike, I've begun to realize this man
doesn't just write beautiful phrases, he actually speaks and obviously thinks
in beautiful phrases.
He also says he writes quickly and rarely re-writes. This stuff just flows from
the man naturally.
I wonder if he made up bedtime stories for his children.
Beej
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (13 of 15), Read 17 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Monday, June 25, 2001 05:12 PM
AND! I'm on my ninth Updike novel!
(I can do this..I know I can..I'm fired up.)
Beej
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (14 of 15), Read 12 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Monday, June 25, 2001 05:17 PM
Any writer who says he doesn't rewrite lies.
Ruth
"We are each of us like our little blue planet, hung in black space, upheld by
nothing but our mutual reassurances, our loving lies." John Updike
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (15 of 15), Read 13 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Monday, June 25, 2001 05:18 PM
Actually he said that at one point and then contradicted himself later.
Beej
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (16 of 29), Read 17 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Sara Sauers (stsauers@att.net)
Date:
Tuesday, June 26, 2001 08:09 AM
Beej and Ruth -
I'm with you on preferring this style of Updike's to that of
WITCHES, which I read a few years ago. It's the way he
bares the core of these lovers, husbands, wives and family
that keeps me hooked on his writing.
I thought it was a wonderful touch that the events in this
book were, in a way, watched over by the large portrait of
the first wife, Joan, that hung upstairs in the stepson's
bedroom. I was surprised that Updike never placed Peggy in
that room to deal with that portrait. But maybe that would
have been too easy.
The late night conversation between Joey and his mom near
the end of the book, where we learn of Joey's ambivalence
about his decision to leave one woman for another was
especially powerful, I thought.
On page 138, while he is talking to his mother about leaving
Joan: "I knew it was a mistake even before it was too late to
change... But it had gone so far that, I guess it was Daddy's
stubbornness, I was damned if I'd back out."
And just a bit later, from Joey's mother: "'You've taken a
vulgar woman to be your wife.' It was true."
(I know this doesn't sound ambivalent, but given other
events in the book where he seems to be happy that he
married Peggy, it appears to me that he isn't sure about
what he did.)
Too many women in one farmhouse.
I'm curious now, too, about THE CENTAUR.
Sara
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (17 of 29), Read 16 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Tuesday, June 26, 2001 10:46 AM
""I knew it was a mistake even before it was too late to
change... But it had gone so far..."
That was such a telling phrase, wasn't it, Sara? How many of
us have gotten ourselves into the same pickle? You know, I
think one reason I like this one so much is that so much of it
is representative of universal, or at least widespread,
truths---once you abstract from this very particular situation.
Ruth
"We are each of us like our little blue planet, hung in black
space, upheld by nothing but our mutual reassurances, our
loving lies." John Updike
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (18 of 29), Read 16 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Sara Sauers (stsauers@att.net)
Date:
Tuesday, June 26, 2001 03:21 PM
Ruth,
Yes, widespread truths, but not those that you can find
many people to talk about. Though I have had one friend
admit to me that she knew she was making a mistake as she
was walking down the aisle!
I thought that Joey, his mom, and Peggy talked about Joan
an awful lot compared to families I know in that situation. I'm
not so sure it's a great idea. I would have thought so at one
point in my life, but probably not now.
Sara
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (19 of 29), Read 18 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Tuesday, June 26, 2001 03:27 PM
Well, now you have two friends who admit that they knew
they were making a mistake when walking down the aisle.
Actually, I knew that morning.
Yes, they did talk about Joan quite a bit. Not very tactful. But
then nobody in this story, except perhaps the kid, was long
on tact.
Ruth
"We are each of us like our little blue planet, hung in black
space, upheld by nothing but our mutual reassurances, our
loving lies." John Updike
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (20 of 29), Read 19 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Tuesday, June 26, 2001 03:32 PM
Ruth & Sara:
"I knew it was a mistake even before it was too late to
change... But it had gone so far..."
I sure know the name of that tune. Apparently this aspect of
human nature is nothing new, though. One of my favorite
verses in the Bible is from Paul, writing in Corinthians:
The things that I would do, I do not. The things that I would
not, these I do.
Sounds spot-on, to me.
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (21 of 29), Read 18 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Gail Singer (gailsinger_gross@hotmail.com)
Date:
Tuesday, June 26, 2001 03:57 PM
greetings ALL..
after reading this thread.. i have more curious about JOHN
UPDIKE than i ever had!!
hip hip hooray for CR!
gail..a p r
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (22 of 29), Read 21 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Tuesday, June 26, 2001 06:53 PM
This is an awfully good novel, gail, and relatively short. If you
ever have any desire to sample Updike, this would be a good
place to start, I think.
Actually, my estimation of it has risen while discussing it with
Sara. Maybe Nicholson Baker is close to correct when he
claims it's a perfect novel. These four characters are very
vividly done, particularly the mother, whom I find the most
interesting by far.
A great biblical quotation, Dale! I'm putting it on my list of
possible epitaphs.
Steve
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (23 of 29), Read 16 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Dale Short (dshort@bham.rr.com)
Date:
Tuesday, June 26, 2001 07:10 PM
Go, Steve! I would say there's no possible copyright
infringement with the apostle Paul, as he has been quoted
at every funeral I've been to in the past two years,
denominations aside, and in one brief eulogy that I had the
privilege of delivering myself.
Old Paul is now taking his lumps from contemporary biblical
scholars, but I swear, he was onto something.
>>Dale in Ala.
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (24 of 29), Read 9 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, June 27, 2001 07:36 AM
I'm half way done with The Centaur (more on this one, later.
Wow! Is this ever a unique book!) and see the farm and the
son as the main tie between the two novels. I want to go
back, find and compare details between the two books, and
then go through Conversations With Updike to see how
Updike links them together. My kids are on summer vacation
and so I don't have the time to do this sort of thing as I did
when they were in school, so it might take me awhile.
Sara, Your observation concerning Joan's portrait was a
great one! Somehow, I think the mother is using Joan as a
way of keeping the past alive for Joey and I think it has to do
with keeping Joey tied to the farm. The farm is everything in
this book.
Beej
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (25 of 29), Read 10 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Sara Sauers (stsauers@att.net)
Date:
Wednesday, June 27, 2001 07:52 AM
So, Beej, are you recommending THE CENTAUR? I can't quite
tell!
Sara
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (26 of 29), Read 11 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, June 27, 2001 07:57 AM
Well, yes! I would love to discuss this with y'all!
But to forewarn you, its ODD!..mostly because it has
mythology interwoven throughout..the myth of Chiron ( the
top gun of the centaurs) and his relationship to Prometheus.
Updike includes a mythological index at the end of the book.
I'm not quite certain why he included the mythology.
I think this one will make for an interesting discussion.
(I think I read that The Centaur is Updike's favorite of all his
novels.) Beej
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (27 of 29), Read 9 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, June 27, 2001 08:09 AM
I also picked up John Updike's memoirs Self-Consciousness
because of Of The Farm and The Centaur.
I'll explain why after I finish reading it.
Beej
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (28 of 29), Read 8 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Steve Warbasse (wk4@qwest.net)
Date:
Wednesday, June 27, 2001 08:10 AM
My paperback copy of The Centaur sits proudly on my shelf
here. The bookmark is at page 108, a little past the half way
point. I have never finished it. I would certainly be willing to
give it another try.
That novel and his first short story collection, Pigeon Feathers,
used to show up in college syllabi routinely. I think that may
have something to do with my resistance to them. Need to
get over that.
Steve
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (29 of 29), Read 6 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, June 27, 2001 08:16 AM
I can see why this book can bog a reader down ..The
mythology, at first, is difficult to sort out, but it becomes
clearer as you go on.
In Conversations With Updike (I'm beginning to feel like a
book promoter with this one!) Updike is repeatedly
questioned about the addition of this mythology and is quite
adamant about its importance.
Beej
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (30 of 32), Read 10 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
R Bavetta (rbavetta@prodigy.net)
Date:
Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:51 AM
Mythology. Groan. I'm not sure about this one now.
I have read Pigeonfeathers, and can recommend it.
Ruth
"We are each of us like our little blue planet, hung in black
space, upheld by nothing but our mutual reassurances, our
loving lies." John Updike
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (31 of 32), Read 11 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:55 AM
The mythology is actually a rather small part of the book,
Ruth. And the rest is worth the journey through
that..Please..go ahead, be a good sport and read it with me!
Beej
Topic:
Of the Farm, by John Updike (32 of 32), Read 12 times
Conf:
CONSTANT READER
From:
Beej Connor (connorva@mindspring.com)
Date:
Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:56 AM
In fact, you could probably skim over the mythology parts
and not miss much..which makes me wonder why it was
included in the first place.
(Though, I must add, I am not finished with The Centaur and,
therefore, cannot say with certainty that it doesn't all tie in
at the end and become more relevant.)
Beej