Topic: 
     Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (1 of 2), Read 12
     times  
 Conf: 
     Reading List 
 From: 
     Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org 
 Date: 
     Saturday, December 15, 2001 04:44 PM 


The community setting of this novel is one of the things that I find
interesting. The community identity of Scuffletown is really
marked by its lack of identity. Apparently Lumbee Indians, they
are not recognized as such.

A depressing, abysmal place, this Scuffletown. "No fate is sealed,
there is another on the way as long as life continues," Rhoda says,
but it surely seems that her fate is sealed in the form of being
locked in this place. That was an aspect of this novel that puzzled
me. "Get the hell outa there, Rhoda!" I wanted to say. But she
doesn't even though given the opportunity.

Perhaps this is simply another among the many commentaries on
the necessary self-sufficiency and independence of the women in
this novel--the fact that she doesn't run off with the man.

Steve


 Topic: 
     Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (2 of 2), Read 6
     times  
 Conf: 
     Reading List 
 From: 
     Jane Niemeier jniemeie@hotmail.com 
 Date: 
     Saturday, December 15, 2001 09:49 PM 


Steve,
I really enjoyed this novel. I have spent some time wondering
what kind of story it is. Is it primarily a civil war story, a story of
the underprivileged, a love story, or just Rhoda's story? I guess it
is all of the above, and I sure found Rhoda to be fascinating.
Jane


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (3 of 7),
      Read 13 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org 
 Date: 
      Sunday, December 16, 2001 05:22 PM 


Yes, Jane, I found Rhoda fascinating, too. This is her story,
it seems to me.

To the extent that the Civil War forms part of the setting,
this certainly is a different view of it from Scuffletown--a
ragged, amorphous affair marked by stragglers and
looters and the activities of the nefarious Home Guard.

Steve


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (4 of 7),
      Read 14 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Ann Davey davey@tconl.com 
 Date: 
      Sunday, December 16, 2001 05:54 PM 


I'm on about page 227, at the spot where everything
starts to go to hell in a hand basket, as my father used to
say.

Things are picking up, but the story is not as compelling as
either Firemen's Fair or Rich in Love. Sometimes I think
that authors who try their hand at historical fiction, after
they have made their mark with more contemporary tales,
have a tendency to try to cram in too much of their
research. That can slow down the story. 

Ann


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (5 of 7),
      Read 15 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net 
 Date: 
      Sunday, December 16, 2001 06:09 PM 


This is the first Humphreys book I have read, so I have
nothing to compare it to. I enjoyed it very much. I'm from
NC, but these people and their situations are entirely new
to me. I loved the description of the Lowrie farm and its
neatness. I can understand how Rhoda would aspire to
that. I wish Catherine Hill would read it to give us her
opinion of the historical accuracy.

Sherry


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (6 of 7),
      Read 9 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Jane Niemeier jniemeie@hotmail.com 
 Date: 
      Sunday, December 16, 2001 09:23 PM 


Sherry,
I also liked the description of the Lowrie farm. And I loved
the descriptions of life in a turpentine camp. I could just
imagine how quickly those trees went up when Sherman
marched through the area. He was certainly the angel of
death, wasn't he?

Steve,
The Scuffletown boys seemed to be into survival. Since
they were Union sympathizers, the local authorities
thought nothing of murdering them. Think of what
happened to the Lowrie nephews. I very much like all of
the threads of this novel.

Jane


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (7 of 7),
      Read 6 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net 
 Date: 
      Monday, December 17, 2001 07:55 AM 


One of the things that amazed me was the spiriting away
of young boys, practically children to work on the "dirt
works." I just don't know very much history. Was that
really done? Were they stolen because they were Indian
or would the Confederates have stolen any available kid?
Another thing, were they not allowed to have guns
because they were Indians? It seemed like a catch-22
situation. They didn't have any real status, because they
couldn't prove who they were, but at least they weren't
forced to leave their land (such as it was). Another
question, is there a theory that those folks are what
became of the Lost Colony, or did Humphreys make that
up? 

Sherry


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (8 of 9),
      Read 14 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org 
 Date: 
      Monday, December 17, 2001 10:25 AM 


I can't answer your last question specifically, Sherry. I do
know that Rhoda Strong and Henry Lowrie, as well as
many of the other characters, are historical figures.
Josephine Humphreys claims that she based this novel to
the greatest extent possible on historical fact and simply
used her imagination to fill in the day to day details. 

I liked this:

Scuffletown as a place was anchored but driftable and as an
idea it had the floating nature of a dream. In either form it
was hard for strangers to reach.

Of course that still doesn't obviate my question. Why
would anyone want to get there, and if one was already
there, why wouldn't one want to get out when the
opportunity presented itself? The power of community, I
guess.

Steve


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (9 of 9),
      Read 9 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net 
 Date: 
      Monday, December 17, 2001 03:54 PM 


Rhoda said several times that the land was quite beautiful.
That seem to be a strong draw for her. But if it had been
me, I would have wondered about the possibilities of other
beautiful places. Something to compare it to. 

I found this link, which I thought was interesting.
Obviously, the Lost Colony idea wasn't something
Humphreys made up. I found one web page which took it
as a fact, and another that said it was just a remote
theory.

http://www.geocities.com/bigorrin/lumb.htm

Sherry


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (10 of 13),
      Read 12 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Ann Davey davey@tconl.com 
 Date: 
      Tuesday, December 18, 2001 05:46 PM 


WARNING PLOT SPOILERS****

I finished this book today, and I am left with Steve's
question. Why didn't Rhoda leave at the end? After all, she
was living in a country where people pulled up stakes all
the time and tried their luck in new places. I can only
conclude that Rhoda really didn't want to be with Henry
Lowrie that much. Even if that were true, I am surprised
that she didn't want to give her children more
opportunities by moving on to a different place.

It seems that Rhoda in the novel was based on a real
person who stayed put. Maybe the historical Rhoda wasn't
as strong as this character is supposed to be. 

It is difficult for me to imagine such a strong an attachment
to place, so perhaps the failure of imagination lies within
me.

Ann


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (11 of 13),
      Read 10 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net 
 Date: 
      Wednesday, December 19, 2001 07:26 AM 


I'm not so sure that it was lack of strength of character
that kept Rhoda where she was. There was something
compelling, a voice in her heart, that told her she should
stay. I think it may be a shortcoming of the book that that
wasn't explored more. In fact I think it might have been
easier for her to go with Henry. It wasn't easy to make a
life for herself and her children with what she had. But
think of what she would have had to give up, had she left
-- her sense of identity, of belonging, of stewardship, and
her great friend (I forgot her name). I think that she was
the real "love" in her life. She was sexually drawn to
Henry, but she felt at home with her friend.

Sherry


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (12 of 13),
      Read 11 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Ann Davey davey@tconl.com 
 Date: 
      Wednesday, December 19, 2001 01:07 PM 


Sherry,
Good point about the friend Margaret, Sherry.
Ann


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (13 of 13),
      Read 11 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Karen Slongwhite bookworm@greeneland.com 
 Date: 
      Wednesday, December 19, 2001 01:25 PM 


I've still got about 20 pages left to go in this book, which I
plan to polish off on my way home from work, so I can't
comment on that. This book is reminding me a lot of Annie
Dillard's The Living, which I read last year, I think.

Both books are set in the 19th century, and involve poor,
tightly woven communities set in the middle of woods,
making their living from the trees. The Living is set in the
Pacific Northwest and they work at lumberyards.

I was pondering the title Nowhere Else on Earth. I see
Scuffletown, or perhaps the land it is built on, as being
almost like a character in this book. There's certainly more
to it than a backdrop against which the events occur.

Rho is extremely connected to the land (think of her lying
face down with her arms outstretched embracing the earth
and wanting to be buried in a cross shaped coffin so she
can be buried in that posture). I think this has a lot to do
with why she doesn't leave. Her very strong sense that
she is a part of the place.

I think this is a less common feeling today since we live in
such a mobile society -- hopping around from one place to
another for a job or just for a new view. Personally, I feel
very attached to Boston as a city. From his posts here, I'd
say Bob feels the same way about New York. It is more
than just a location you live. It is a knowing a place deep
down and just knowing it is where you belong -- or at
least that it is very much a part of you.

I'm trying to think of a better way to explain this feeling,
but I think I won't say anything else until I actually finish
the book!

Karen


 Topic: 
     Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (14 of 16), Read
     20 times  
 Conf: 
     Reading List 
 From: 
     Barbara Moors bar647@aol.com 
 Date: 
     Thursday, December 27, 2001 10:12 AM 


I finished this book a week or so ago, wrote a note and then lost
it as I was trying to post it and didn't have time to redo it. My
memory is a bit less fresh now. However, one of the themes
that kept recurring to me was that this group of people didn't fit
in any cubbyhole. They weren't considered Indians and they
weren't considered to be white. They had a greater connection
to each other because there were so few of them and to
Scuffletown as the one place in the world that belonged to them.
There was a great emphasis on being proud of who they were
and not letting others decide that being white was better. And, I
think that's why Rhoda couldn't leave. Scuffletown was simply
who she was and who her children were, no matter what the
value system of the rest of the world might say.

Earlier, someone posted a website which gave some of the
historical basis for this novel and I really appreciated it. I kept
wondering as I read if Henry was a real character and if this
group was real.

Barb 


 Topic: 
     Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (15 of 16), Read
     10 times  
 Conf: 
     Reading List 
 From: 
     Brenda Barteck bbarteck@earthlink.net 
 Date: 
     Friday, December 28, 2001 10:45 PM 


Mmmm...my first time posting so don't be annoyed if I ask a
question that seems out of place. Since no one else seems to
have mentioned this yet, did anyone else's heart break when
she let her man go? I didn't sense it as weakness, to me it was
Rhoda at her strongest. She knew that her heart would ache for
him every day, but she let him leave knowing that the only way
to give her children their legacy (she makes the point over and
over again that they don't have tangible riches, to me she was
implying that the community was their wealth) yet ensure that
her man was safe, was to send him away. She clearly realized
she couldn't have both, and like so many woman seem to do,
she purposefully chose her role of mother, caretaker of the
family over her own selfish desires (be with him always...either
there where he was clearly in danger and likely to die or
elsewhere where her children would lose their birthright). I think
the title of the book states the whole point...if the family was to
remain healthy and "wealthy", she couldn't leave. She had to
raise them in Scuffletown and send him away. Anywhere else
they would have been poor (she makes the point that she is
"useless") minorities in a time that was especially cruel to
minorities; in Scuffletown they had history and community. The
book makes the point that although outsiders saw Scuffletown
as ugly or dismal, she never saw it as such. At any rate, that's
what I took out of it, I'd be curious to hear from anyone who
agrees or disagrees?


 Topic: 
     Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (16 of 16), Read 1
     times  
 Conf: 
     Reading List 
 From: 
     R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net 
 Date: 
     Saturday, December 29, 2001 12:41 AM 


Hi Brenda, welcome to Constant Reader. I enjoyed your
summing up of Rhoda's motives.

Ruth

As a queen sits down, knowing that a chair will be there,
Or a general raises his hand and is given the field glasses,
Step off assuredly into the blank of your mind.
Richard Wilbur
Walking to Sleep



 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (17 of 17),
      Read 6 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net 
 Date: 
      Saturday, December 29, 2001 08:06 AM 


Welcome, Brenda. I think you have a very good point. We
often tend to judge books and motives of characters using
contemporary circumstances, instead of putting them
squarely in context. I'm sure you're right about the
children. I hadn't thought of that. 
Why don't you go up to the conference "Welcome to
WebBoard" and tell us a little something about yourself
and how you found us. We love having new folks discover
us.

Sherry


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (18 of
      18), Read 11 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org 
 Date: 
      Saturday, December 29, 2001 01:46 PM 


The vast majority of correspondents here never get
annoyed with any postings by anyone, Brenda. I don't
think you need be concerned about that anymore.

And after all, it was I who posted the question about
Rhoda's staying in Scuffletown in the first place. Your
response is an excellent one. Rhoda's character is
obviously a very strong one. She is certainly capable of
making the calculated decision that you describe. I see
now that this decision is entirely consistent with her
character as portrayed.

Steve


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (19 of 26),
      Read 22 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Barbara Moors bar647@aol.com 
 Date: 
      Sunday, December 30, 2001 03:02 PM 


Brenda, you put into words exactly what I felt about
Rhoda's motives when reading the book and tried to say
(inadequately) earlier. Excellent presentation of the point.
Wecome to Constant Reader!

barb


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (20 of 26),
      Read 16 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Candy Minx candyminx@hotmail.com 
 Date: 
      Thursday, January 03, 2002 05:40 PM 


Well, darn if I haven't had a heck of a time 
trying to find this novel. I have read two of 
her books before, something fireman 
something, and Dreams of Sleep. I can see why 
I couldn't find her new book in Canada, but I 
have traipsed around Washington and NYC and 
still no luck. But maybe tomorrow.

I read Humphries quite a while ago, so I 
don't remember a lot of things...but with 
Dreams of Sleep, I remember it being 
"creepy". No not a bad work, not a Clive 
Barker scary, but...creepy. I remembered a 
mum throwing out little girls Barbie's and 
feeling sick about it. Anyway, I DID find a 
copy of this one, and in a feeble attempt to 
join this discussion, and try to catch up 
here is an excerpt...


"As he pulls the big old Oldsmobile, a '76 
Delta Royale, into the driveway he sees Beth 
and Marcy looking down at him from behind a 
column on the second-floor porch. Beth's thin 
arms reach through the balustrade, grabbing 
air, then they disappear. Were they reaching 
for him? In the kitchen, water is running, 
dishes clattering. The sound is a common 
enough sound for six o'clock, November, his 
house-but it nudges his memories of childhood 
the way a dog's bark at night or piano music 
through a window sets off a charge deep in 
his brain. A house with a woman and children 
in it at dusk is frightening to the man who 
draws near and hears the muffled voices, 
those dishes being washed. The pure domestic 
horr


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (21 of 26),
      Read 17 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Candy Minx candyminx@hotmail.com 
 Date: 
      Thursday, January 03, 2002 05:42 PM 


oops, I am having trouble here, on this new 
computer...I keep cutting things off...


that last sentence is supposed to say:

"The pure domestic horror of it rings down 
his spine


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (22 of 26),
      Read 17 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Barbara Moors bar647@aol.com 
 Date: 
      Friday, January 04, 2002 08:24 AM 


Candy, I'm surprised that you're having trouble finding
Nowhere Else on Earth. Even one of our local small libraries
had it.

Barb


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (23 of 26),
      Read 15 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Candy Minx candyminx@hotmail.com 
 Date: 
      Friday, January 04, 2002 09:29 AM 


I know, I find it weird too. Now, in Canada, 
I have found a couple of her books, through 
the library years ago. Thats when I read 
Dreams of Sleep before. I thought she may 
have had a regional following when I couldn't 
find NEOE a while ago. I found one or two 
copies of DOS around Toronto, but since I had 
read it I didn't get them. I did pick up a 
copy of DOS the other day at The 
Strand...just to have something. I went to 
B&N at three locations here in NYC, and I 
went to a big store in Washington last week, 
can't remember the name and no copy there 
either. But guess what Barbara, of all 
things? My family announced yesterday we're 
driving to N.C. in a couple of days! What a 
coincidence as DOS is set there, and I bet I 
will find NEOE a book I can't seem to find no 
where else on earth. Remember I can't take it 
out of the library here, I am on the ro


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (24 of 26),
      Read 15 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Candy Minx candyminx@hotmail.com 
 Date: 
      Friday, January 04, 2002 09:31 AM 


oops, as I was saying, I am on the road and 
don't have a library card


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (25 of 26),
      Read 13 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Susan Pardue spardue@carolina.rr.com 
 Date: 
      Friday, January 04, 2002 10:01 AM 


Dreams of Sleep is set in South Carolina, actually, but you
should be able
to find Humphreys' books in North Carolina without any
trouble. Where in NC
are you coming to, Candy? I'm in Charlotte.

Susan


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Checked by AVG anti-virus system
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1/2/02


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (26 of 26),
      Read 12 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org 
 Date: 
      Friday, January 04, 2002 01:00 PM 


Y'all will recall that at the beginning of the topic "The Next
Book - Nowhere Else on Earth," I cited Michael Upchurch's
review. Upon further reflection, I agree with his primary
criticism of this novel. 

While Rhoda herself is a fine creation with a distinctive
voice, the secondary characters are a bit too flat. By that I
mean (and he says) that the secondary characters are
either too purely good or too purely villainous. They are
stock players.

My disappointment in that regard (at the risk of repeating
myself) is heightened by my admiration of two other
novels by Josephine Humphreys, Fireman's Fair and Rich in
Love wherein many of the secondary characters have real
depth. 

So once again, to anyone who was not completely taken
with this particular novel, sometime in the future do give
Josephine Humphreys another chance in the form of one
of those other two.

Steve

WAL*MART Customer


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (27 of 27),
      Read 6 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Lynn Isvik washualum@yahoo.com 
 Date: 
      Sunday, January 06, 2002 09:22 AM 


Thanks for mentioning The Fireman's Fair earlier, Steve.
Just based on the original description of Nowhere Else on
Earth, I decided it wasn't likely to be to my taste, so I
picked up TFF instead and thoroughly enjoyed it. You're
right about the secondary characters there... in particular,
the parents, and Albert, although even small characters
were drawn with plenty of detail (like Huong and Anna,
who ran The Conch). 

Lynn


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (11 of
      13), Read 14 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Edward Houghton eddh@pacbell.net 
 Date: 
      Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:37 PM 


Thoroughly enjoyed this book. It was a slice of the Civil
War that I have never seen in a novel before. Were we
supposed to be unsure if Rhoda and her kin were
Indians or some off-shoot of English settlers that got
separated from the rest? The doctor referred to a
Roanoke settlement, didn't he? The thesis being that
these people didn't have a language like other Indians,
so maybe they had a different background. Food for
thought I guess. 

I was really disappointed with Henry. Rhoda kept
building him up in her narrative as a super bad guy of
the Robin Hood type. His reputation went down hill with
me when he let his father be shot, and he was near
enough to do something about it. Having Rhoda with him
didn't seem to me to be a very good or reasonable
excuse. Also he never did in the guy who killed his father
and threatened his mother. Why? In the end he turns
out to be just another thief, and takes off for safe
ground. 

Rhoda stays in her little community for better or worse.
It seems like a dead end to me. Like some people here
in L.A. who think they do more good by staying in the
"old neighborhood". I don't think it works out, the
neighborhood does them in, sooner or later. I think
neighborhoods take on a character and you can play hell
trying to change it. As we left Rhoda, her daughter was
a moonshiner. Maybe that is a legacy, but there must
have been something better in the outside world. 


EDD 

"If I could stir
I could break a tree -
I could break you."
H.D 


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (12 of
      13), Read 5 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net 
 Date: 
      Monday, March 04, 2002 07:07 AM 


Edd, I enjoyed your post. There are several websites
about the Lumbee Indians. Here's a link to one of them:
http://www.lumbee.org/history2.htm . Some people
believe that they speak English because they merged
with The Lost Colony, and other people say that's just a
myth. 

Sherry


 Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (13 of
      13), Read 2 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Steve Warbasse swarbasse@iowabar.org 
 Date: 
      Monday, March 04, 2002 09:35 AM 


Edd, I'm glad you enjoyed this book. Your views on
Henry are interesting. You saw him as a Jesse James
type, in other words.

I thought the characterization of this "Indian" community
was the best thing about the novel. The community did
not belong either to the Indian or the white. About as
alienated as one can get. No status at all.

Steve


Topic: 
      Nowhere Else on Earth by Josephine Humphreys (7 of
      7), Read 25 times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Edward Houghton eddh@pacbell.net 
 Date: 
      Monday, March 04, 2002 03:52 PM 


SHERRY 

Thanks for the website. The important thing is can they
put up a casino? 

EDD
"Two girls discover 
the secret of life 
in a sudden line of 
poetry."
DENISE LEVERTOV