To: ALL Date: 12/13
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 10:09 PM
MICHAEL STROGOFF by Jules Verne
When this work first was listed on our reading list, Allen
asked me to find a copy of it in French. I started reading
it this week, and I am currently on p. 90. Have the rest of
you begun your reading? I will be glad to compare
translations with you if you would like to. I don't have
the English version, but if you give me the chapter, I
should be able to find the passage. There are some
wonderful drawings in the edition that I have. Jane in
sunny Colorado
=============== Reply 1 of Note 24 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 12/13
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 10:28 PM
Dear Jane,
I'm glad you started this thread. I was going to write up
something and post it tomorrow. I finished it about two days
ago and I'm not sure my translation is the best. There were
some sentences that were extremely awkward. I'll have to
track them down. Is Edd anywhere around? We sure want to
have him in on this.
Sherry
=============== Reply 3 of Note 24 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 12/14
From: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Time: 3:51 AM
Sherry Keller
I'm (a)round. Especially with all of the eating. I'll
have something on Michael Strogoff by the promised
date, the 15th, if not a little before.
Edd Houghton after a day of family frolicking. Taquitos
and tamales and all of those things that remind us of the
holidays. It's the new generation doing the cooking now.
Sure would have been great if they had my step-dads
enchilada recipe; but they are trying.
=============== Reply 8 of Note 24 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 12/14
From: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Time: 5:25 PM
Jane & All: OK, I'll get back to business...here are two
brief pieces on Verne, the first from the encyclopedia and
another from a review of a recent Jules Verne biography in
the L.A. Times...
***
Jules Verne (1828-1905) French novelist, father of modern
science fiction. His enormously popular romances include the
prophetic Journey to the Center of the Earth (1864), Twenty
Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (1870), and Around the World
in Eighty Days (1873).
***
(EUGENE WEBER, The Incandescent Dreams of Jules Verne; JULES
VERNE: An Exploratory Biography By Herbert R. Lottman; St.
Martin's Press: 360 pp., $26.95; Home Edition, Los Angeles
Times, 5 Jan 1997)
Shortly before he died, Jules Verne (1828-1905) boasted
that he was working on his hundredth book. If that's how
many he wrote--and it all depends on how you count--I must
have devoured at least a third of them before my 15th
birthday.
So had Theodore Roosevelt, Kaiser William II and millions
the world over. School libraries in France and elsewhere
stored scores of the writer's books; so did the memory of
adults like Andre Gide and H.G. Wells. When, in the
mid-1920s, the most intelligent man in France, Paul Valery,
contemplated what he called a true history of reading, a
survey of books most truly read, Jules Verne headed his
list.
That was also when, in the United States, Verne-inspired
Hugo Gernsback launched a pulp magazine called Amazing
Stories, "the magazine of scientifiction," that presented
sci-fi as a distinct literary species. Capt. Hatteras and
Capt. Nemo, the ominous Nautilus, the moon launcher
Columbiad and Robur's "The Clipper of the Clouds" inspired
Adm. Richard Byrd, the polar explorer, as they did Wernher
von Braun, the rocket scientist, and Frank Borman, the
astronaut.
Son of the age that made tourism practical and geography
relevant, fascinated by the machines that made exotic travel
possible, Verne and his characters, like Phileas Fogg, are,
as John Clute has put it, the archetypal voyagers of the
literary imagination. Featuring ingenious entrepreneurs,
intrepid explorers, imaginative engineers and resourceful
manservants in the happy age when globe-trotters did their
trotting attended by valets, his works abound in
extraordinary discoveries and in lush lists of plants,
minerals and beasts.
Verne's incandescent dreams scoured the world for endless
possibilities. "What Walter Scott did for history," Herbert
R. Lottman, the author of "Jules Verne: An Exploratory
Biography," cites one Paris critic declaring, "Jules Verne
does for geography." Not for geography alone but for the
North Pole, the South Pole, the center of the Earth, ice
fields, volcanoes, mystery isles and flying islets,
asteroids, profound mine shafts, underwater caverns,
jungles, deserts and mountain fastnesses. He added color and
excitement to dry texts and maps...
***
More soon,
Dale in Ala.
=============== Reply 10 of Note 24 =================
To: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Date: 12/14
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 9:12 PM
Dale,
Thanks for the biographical material. I knew nothing about
MICHEL STROGOFF (the French title) when I started it, so I
expected it to be science fiction. So far (p. 100), this
book seems to be an adventure story with a little romance
thrown in. There is a lot of information about Russia in
the late 20th century here. There is quite a bit of
biographical material in the French edition, but I haven't
read it yet. Jane who is also reading Julie Smith's new
book. I can't resist those New Orleans settings.
=============== Reply 11 of Note 24 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 12/15
From: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Time: 0:33 AM
Jane: I was expecting futuristic from Verne's MICHAEL
STROGOFF too (before this is over, I know I'm going to call
it MICHAEL STROGANOV from instinct at least once and
embarrass myself) and was surprised to find it's set in
Russia. Shades of Tolstoy and Turgenev! I declared, but
haven't gotten far enough yet to declare much more. In the
timeless words of Scarlett, though, tomorrow is another
week...
Dale in Ala.
=============== Reply 12 of Note 24 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 12/15
From: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Time: 2:02 AM
Jane Niemeier
Michael Strogoff is indeed an adventure story, but Verne
does indulge in another of his loves; geographical
details. By the time the final chapter appears you feel
that you are personally acquainted with the landscape
between Moscow and Irkutsk.
I can imagine Jules Verne with tons of left-over notes and
tour maps and guide books (Baedekers?) from AROUND THE
WORLD IN EIGHTY DAYS which was published in 1872. MICHAEL
STROGOFF was published in 1876. Travel was a big passion
for the young Verne. I'm not sure that he got to indulge
himself when he grew older, but I certainly hope so.
An example of Verne's descriptions of terrain taken from
Chapter X follows:
"Lake Baikal is situated seventeen hundred feet above the
level of the sea. Its length is about nine hundred versts,
its breadth one hundred. Its depth is not known. Madame
de Bourboulon states that, according to the boatmen, it
likes to be spoken of as 'Madam Sea.' If it is called 'Sir
Lake,' it immediately lashes itself into fury. However, it
is reported and believed by the Siberians that a Russian is
never drowned in it.
This immense basin of fresh water, fed by more than three
hundred rivers, is surrounded by magnificent volcanic
mountains. It has no other outlet than the Angara, which
after passing Irkutsk throws itself into the Yenisei, a
little above the town of Yeniseisk. As to the mountains
which encase it, they form a branch olf the Toungouzes, and
are derived from the vast system of the Alai."
I feel a great trust in Mr Verne's descriptions of the
land. I have no intention of checking up on him; so it is
an act of faith. Isn't this the way we read? Unless of
course the author has audacity to describe something in our
own back yard. But, from the little bit of Verne that I
have read, this is his forte'.
More later. Edd Houghton battered and bruised from a day
of cussing, spitting, hair pulling, eye gouging and general
mayhem. Yes. today we decorated the Xmas tree.
=============== Reply 16 of Note 24 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 12/16
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 5:14 PM
Just got back from the library, with my copy of MICHAEL
STROGOFF. When I was a kid, I would always read anything
that was illustrated by N. C. Wyeth. Here's one I missed.
Have any of the rest of you found this lovely illustrated
edition by Scribner's?
Ruth
=============== Reply 17 of Note 24 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 12/16
From: BUYS59A BARBARA HILL Time: 7:46 PM
My copy from the library is also illustrated by N. C. Wyeth!
A bonus! His father is one of my all time favorites.
B. Hill
=============== Reply 18 of Note 24 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 12/16
From: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Time: 11:39 PM
Ruth: And that can't have been a pretty sight, a great big
rat getting danced to death...
Dale in Ala., whose copy of MICHAEL STROGOFF awaits at
the library
=============== Reply 19 of Note 24 =================
To: BUYS59A BARBARA HILL Date: 12/17
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 0:08 AM
Barbara, methinks you have the generations backwards, if
it's Andrew Wyeth you love. Andrew is N.C.'s son.
Ruth
=============== Reply 20 of Note 24 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 12/17
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 10:02 PM
Ruth and all,
I wonder why the American edition changed artists. My
French version is illustrated by J. Ferat and engraved by
Ch. Babant. Have you heard of Ferat before? I haven't, but
the illustrations are wonderful! They really capture the
flavor of the book and are done in intricate detail. I
haven't read the autobiographical material yet, but I am
wondering if the book was serialized before it was published
as a whole work. Edd, do you know? I am on p. 200. Jane
who has the end of the semester to deal with
=============== Reply 21 of Note 24 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 12/17
From: BUYS59A BARBARA HILL Time: 11:12 PM
Oops, you're right. I stand corrected.
B. Hill
=============== Reply 22 of Note 24 =================
To: BUYS59A BARBARA HILL Date: 12/19
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 10:46 PM
I have just passed the half way mark of this book. At this
point, our hero is in big trouble. Will he make it to the
Grand Duke? Will he be able to save the Czar's derriere? I
love the cliffhangers in this book. It reminds me of some
of the stories I loved as a child. BTW, I am quite sure
that Monsieur Verne would be shocked to hear a lady mention
the word derriere when referring to a "certain" part of the
body. I can hear all of you, "That's no lady, it's Jane!"
Jane who is thrilled to have finished the semester
=============== Reply 23 of Note 24 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 12/19
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 11:14 PM
Gee, Jane, I thought derriere was the word ladies use.
Ruth, who can think of lots of names ladies DON'T use
=============== Reply 24 of Note 24 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 12/20
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 9:57 PM
Ruth,
My mother told me that her grandmother instructed her never
to say the words arms and legs. Ladies referred to such
appendages as limbs. I am sure that a "lady" in the 19th
century never referred to the derriere, even if she thought
about it now and then. Jane who wishes she had known her
grandmothers
=============== Reply 27 of Note 24 =================
To: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Date: 12/21
From: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Time: 3:29 PM
MICHAEL STROGOFF COURIER OF THE CZAR comments contd
There is one thing that intrigues me about Verne's plotting
in this novel. The way he introduces his characters in
pairs. The two newsmen, Harry Blount and Alcide Jolivet
come onstage even before the hero and heroine. Blount and
Jolivet appear at all the crucial happenings. They go out
of their way to not only appear to be neutral, but by their
actions they actually are. There is a subplot with Blount
and Jolivet starting as fierce competitors, and after
sharing risks, the best of friends.
Even before the "good cop, bad cop", Blount and Jolivet use
that technique. The Frenchman is described as "all eyes"
while the Englishman is "all ears". The Frenchman is
loquacious while the Englishman is taciturn. One most
interesting remark on the newspapermen is almost jarring
because of its comparison to our 09's norm:
"...It must be added to their honor, that neither the one
nor the other ever looked over or listened at the walls of
private life, and that they only exercised their vocation
when political or social interests were at stake."
My God! What a concept. Reporters with honor. Reporting
history, not scandal. All in all, two interesting
characters with minor plot roles. Does anyone know if
Verne used these reporters in other storie?
The hero and heroine are not introduced simultaneously, but
the narration of Michael Strogoff's stalwartness and all
around heroic demeanor lead to the introduction of Nadia
Fedor. Verne uses pure narrative to convince us of Michael
Strogoff's resolve and character, but when it comes to the
beautiful Nadia he reinforces his words with a small train
crash. Both Michael and Nadia remain calm throughout; it
is obviously a match made in heaven.
In the most fitting manner, the villains of this piece are
introduced in the shadows of a gypsy camp. Ivan Ogareff, a
traitor, a master of disguises, cruel, a bully and an all
around bad fellow is living with a master spy, Sangarre.
It is hinted of coursem, that they are living in sin.
Heros aren't allowed to do such things, at least not in the
late 19th century literature. Milton once said it was
better to reign in Hell, than be holy in Heaven (or
something like that), maybe this is what he was thinking
about. But all in all, both women; Nadia and Sangarre are
exceptionally strong. And their loyalties are never in
question.
The public servant Nicholas and his dog Serko are given a
brief introduction. Nicholas sticks to his post until the
times are untenable; then he leaves quickly, not to
reappear until later when he is able to offer
transportation in the form of a cart. The nobility of his
end is matched by the dog, Serko, who dies fighting off
vultures who are trying to finish off Nicholas.
Edd Houghton
=============== Reply 28 of Note 24 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 12/21
From: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Time: 3:29 PM
Jane Niemeier
I am not sure if MICHAEL STROGOFF was serialized. But just
looking at a couple of chapter lengths, it appears that
they are very close in length. Uniform length would, I
assume, be a requirement for serialization. Not a proof
but an indication.
I am certain that AROUND THE WORLD IN EIGHTY DAYS was
serialized (in the US), and indeed fueled the traveling fad
that goes on today. The great journalist, Nelly Bly,
using Mr Pulitzer's money beat the eighty days only a few
years after Verne's book was published in 1872.
THE MYSTERIOUS ISLAND, which was published in 1875, was
serialized in the US. I remember reading (somewhere) that
Verne had a contract where he was paid by the chapter. The
resourceful Mr Verne saw this as a great opportunity to
relieve the newspaper people of a lot of money, and
stretched the book out so much that Pulitzer canceled the
contract and did not publish the last chapters. No doubt
alienating some of his readers.
MICHAEL STROGOFF was published in 1876, one year after THE
MYSTERIOUS ISLAND. So, I am not sure if it was serialized
in the US newspapers, but it is possible. What
serialization occurred in France, I don't know.
Sorry, it's just a long winded way of saying, I don't know.
Edd Houghton who want to remind all of you kids, that Santa
really prefers BEER to milk.
=============== Reply 29 of Note 24 =================
To: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Date: 12/23
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 9:44 PM
Edd,
Thanks for your reply. I am hoping to finish MS tomorrow.
It kind of reminds me of Voltaire's CANDIDE, because the
same characters keep popping up even when you think that
they are dead like Nadia. Voltaire was very tongue-in-cheek
about his book since it was a satire while Verne seems to be
very serious. Jane in chilly Colorado
=============== Reply 30 of Note 24 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 12/24
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 10:16 PM
Edd and all,
I finished MS this morning. Did anyone else have a problem
with MS's overwhelming sense of duty? I hated it when he
left his mother behind among the Tartars and left with
Nadia.
Plot spoiler - I had a feeling that our hero would somehow
regain his sight at the end, but I liked the way Verne
handled it and tried to explain it scientifically. He did
give us hints along the way, such as Nadia thinking that M's
eyes looked normal, just bluer than ever. Any translation
questions? Jane in Colorado where it is snowing
=============== Reply 31 of Note 24 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 12/26
From: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Time: 9:41 AM
Jane: Verne can sure spin a good yarn, can't he? True, the
scene where he forsakes his mother is a bit harsh, but I
think that just goes with the territory of being a classic
hero. From Odysseus through the American westerns and
beyond, whenever it comes down to a choice between
momma/wife/sweetheart and foiling them evil-doers, then a
man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. I guess Verne watched
a lot of westerns when he was growing up.
And as Edd points out, he doesn't stint on bringing the
countryside alive, either. I don't even begrudge him the
mini-travelogs because he does them with such relish. Just a
reminder, I guess, that in the days before the Discovery
Channel and Microsoft Encarta on CD-ROM, popular fiction
served a lot more functions than it does today.
Dale in Ala.
=============== Reply 32 of Note 24 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 12/26
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 10:15 AM
Jane,
I'll send in my question about translation when I am back in
Milwaukee. I didn't bring the book up here. Brought lots of
other books, though. Today is my reading day.
Sherry
=============== Reply 33 of Note 24 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 12/30
From: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Time: 12:54 PM
Jane: Two quick questions about translation of MS, if you
please...
--In the second or third page of Chapter 4, where the
Tartar armies are encamped on the river bluff to celebrate
their victories, my book says they had "orgies" planned for
that night. Is this in the contemporary sense, or did Verne
just mean that they really planned to boogie down?
--Several Russian males throughout use the strange term
"little father" with each other, seemingly as kind of a
bonding device, in the way "buddy" is used in my part of the
country. Does the original shed any light on how this term
originated?
I'm getting very near the end of MICHAEL STROGOFF, and
Michael and Nadia are seemingly in deeper sh** than at any
time before, which is saying a lot. Will they make it? I'll
soon know...
Thanks,
Dale in Ala.
=============== Reply 34 of Note 24 =================
To: MXDD10A DALE SHORT Date: 12/30
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 11:03 PM
Dale,
I assume that you mean Chapter 4, of the Second Part. The
French says, "Une fete avec chants, danses et fantasias, et
suivie de quelque bruyante orgie, devait etre donnee en leur
honneur." " A party with songs, dancing, musical
fantasies, and followed by some noisy orgy, was supposed to
be given in their honnor." I looked up "orgie" in my
dictionary to make certain: "Orgy; drunken feasting or
feast."
"Petit pere" is used in French as well. I am wondering if
this is a translation from Russian. Do we have any
speakers of Russian in the group?
I love answering these questions. If anyone else has a
translation question, please let me know.
Jane in sunny Colorado
=============== Reply 35 of Note 24 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 12/31
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 1:27 PM
Jane, I have a question for you. I have a very old paperback
that doesn't even attribute the translation.Some of the sen-
tences seem awkward, as if they were a literal translation
that didn't quite mean the same thing in English. Let's see
if I can explain the whereabouts of one of the sentences in
question. In Chapter 16, about the third page down, there is
a paragraph that starts "There's a thicket!" then the next
paragraph ends in this sentence: "He led his horse to the
stream and fastened him to a tree, returning to the edge of
the road to listen and ascertain with what sort of people he
had to do." I immediately asked the book "do what?" It
almost sounds like American slang. I'm sure it's not
meant that way.
Sherry in Milwaukee where this is this bright light-type
experience going on outside. You've heard tell of this thing
called "sun" that they say shines in other parts of the
world? It seems to be visiting us for a change.
=============== Reply 36 of Note 24 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 12/31
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 10:06 PM
Sherry,
I have searched high and low for this passage. I found
"Over there is a thicket". The next paragraph is, "Michel
Strogoff was advancing as rapidly as possible but with a
certain prudence. He was relying not only on the excellence
of his eyes which pierced the shadows but also on the
carefulness of his horse whose wisdom he knew well". This
is a very awkward translation, I know. Am I in the right
spot? Jane in warm and sunny Colorado
=============== Reply 37 of Note 24 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 01/01
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 11:02 AM
The next paragraph after the paragraph that starts "There is
a thicket" is translated in my book as: "In a few moments,
Michael, dragging his horse by the bridle, reached a little
larch-wood..." The sentence I asked about in my note is the
last sentence of this paragraph.
The very next paragraph has a phrase that I wonder about
too. "Michael had scarcely taken up his position behind a
group of larches when a confused light appeared, above which
glared brighter lights waving about in the shadow." In fact
that sentence is the entire paragraph. The question is what
is a "confused light"?
Sherry on New Year's Day! Happy, Happy!
=============== Reply 38 of Note 24 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 01/01
From: DHGK37A ERNEST BELDEN Time: 3:09 PM
Hi everybody, I finished this book a few days ago and due to
the holidays been unable to do much posting. Hopefully
things will change now in our household. Like Dale, Verne
was one of my favorite authors when I was in my - probably
early - teens. I liked the combination of naivite, heroism,
duty, adventure and science. The style, which now seems
archaic at that time was a special bonus for me. My
comments will suffer due to the fact that I had to return my
copy of MS to the library. It was an ancient and
questionable translation. The sentences often were awkward
or improper- but what the heck, who cares - I am involved in
a deep adventure! One of my questions pertains to history.
Was there an uprising of the Tartars, etc.? Tolstoy's Hadji
Murad deals with a Siberien uprising and my guess is that
there were many such occasions. Verne made an interesting
comment which I would have liked to check up on. He
mentioned the name of a French Lady Aristocrat who had
travelled the same places mentioned in his book. My guess
would be that he had read her book and that it helped him
with his Geographic details. The introduction to my ancient
Volume of Verne mentioned his interest in geography and I
wondered if he actually visited Russia. My very limited
reading of Russian authors leads me to believe that Little
Father, etc., was a common expression perhaps like the one
Dale experienced in the Deep South. The ending of the book
reminded me of other Verne ending. Vaguely remember the
story of the Islandic Vulcanos and the unexpected and odd
survival of the explorers. In the days when this book was
written, a positive lucky ending did not hurt.
In general I was happy to having returned to my childhood
hero- Verne by coursey of Sherry and Edd. Ernie on the
First Day of the New Year working on his New Years
Resolutions which are mainly of a dietary nature. Anyone
else preoccupied with this topic?
=============== Reply 39 of Note 24 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 01/01
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 10:39 PM
Sherry,
Here is the translation from "Over there is a thicket" to
the confused light part. "'Over there is a thicket', he
said to himself.'To seek refuge there is to allow myself to
be caught if these horsemen search around here, but I have
no choice. Here they are! Here they are!'
A few instants afterwards, MS, dragging his horse by the
bridle, arrived at a small woods of larches, to which the
road gave access. On all sides of the thicket, there were
no trees. It was between bogs and ponds separated by dwarf
bushes of gorse and heather. On both sides the terrain was
therefore absolutely impassable, and the detachment must
assuredly pass in front of the little woods because the
soldiers were following the main road to Irkoutsk.
MS threw himself under the cover of the larches and, having
gone in about 40 feet, he was stopped by a stream of water
which closed off this woods with its semi-circular course.
But the shadow was so thick that MS ran no risk of being
seen, unless the woods was thoroughly searched. He led his
horse to the stream,and he tied it to a tree, then he
returned to stretch out on edge of the woods, in order to
decide what course of action he would have to take.
Hardly had MS taken his place behind the thicket of larches
when a rather dim glimmer of light appeared. Here and there
were a few brighter points of light in the shadow."
I think that covers the part you were asking about. The
confused light is a dim light. Jane in warm and sunny
Colorado
=============== Reply 40 of Note 24 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 01/02
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 9:08 AM
I think you must be a much better translater than the one
they had in my edition. Imagine saying "confused light" when
you could say "dim light". And the passage I originally
asked about "ascertain what sort of people he had to do"
makes no sense, but your translation does. I think the
tranlator must not have known English as well as he/she knew
French. Thanks. There are lots of other places where the
writing is just as awkward, but we could be here a long
time. I think I must have the same ancient edition that
Ernie had.
Sherry in warming up Milwaukee
=============== Reply 41 of Note 24 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 01/02
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 9:33 PM
Sherry,
I really enjoyed doing that, so if there are any other
passages that you would like me to take a look at, please
let me know. Remember, however, that I have to go back to
work on Monday, so this weekend would be a good time to post
those questions. Jane who is really not trying to put
pressure on anyone
=============== Reply 3 of Note 2 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 01/14
From: VRCH78A ALLEN CROCKER Time: 11:09 PM
MICHAEL STROGOFF, continued.....
Jane, thanks very much for the insights you've afforded
us with your services as our translator. I have to admit
that back when I asked if you might be able to find
MICHAEL STROGOFF in French (I seem to recall it was a
fairly casual suggestion in a Chat) I thought it was un-
likely that you would indeed be able to find this rather
obscure Jules Verne novel in the original. I guess that'll
teach me not to underestimate your resourcefulness and ded-
ication; in any case, your efforts are very much
appreciated.
My curiosity in this matter was originally piqued some
years ago by an article on JV in THE SCIENCE FICTION ENCY-
CLOPEDIA, the relevant passage being:
These [AROUND THE WORLD IN 80 DAYS, TWENTY THOUSAND
LEAGUES UNDER THE SEA, etc.] were the books of JV's
prime, written with what one might call jubilant flow,
but as a whole they were execrably translated, cut,
bowdlerized and travestied. The reputation he long had
in English-speaking countries for narrative clumsiness
and ignorance of scientific matters was fundamentally
due to his innumerate and illiterate translators who --
along with the publishers who commisioned their work --
remained impenetrably of the conviction that he was a
writer of overblown juveniles and that it was thus
necessary to trim him down, to eliminate any inapprop-
riately adult complexities, and to pare the confusing
scientific material to an absolute minimum. There are
some newer translations, though even recent versions of
these books are not untroubled by cuts and incoherence.
Also, a few years ago I re-read AROUND THE WORLD IN 80
DAYS, a novel I had enjoyed immensely at the age of 12,
and was so taken aback by the flaws I noticed that I
wondered if it was really the same book. Therefore I was
quite interested to see what you could tell us from your
reading of the original. It does seem clear, from a com-
parison of the excerpt you've translated with the version
I have at hand, that at the very least the frequent awk-
wardness of the prose in the English version can be laid
to the linguistic butchery commited by some deservedly
uncredited middleman. The liberties that have been taken
in the translation process seem so extreme that I wonder
if what I read is merely a revision of someone else's
translation. Certainly, there is more than just one
English version floating around, as mine shows some
differences from the quotes that Sherry supplied --
"copse" instead of "thicket", for example. (I'm using
the 1927 Scribner's edition with color plates by N.C.
Wyeth -- a bit scuffed up but in remarkably sound condit-
ion for a 70-year-old library book.) Still, despite the
shameful treatment given his work by the forementioned
bunglers, Verne is still read more than a century after his
heyday -- a telling indication of his undeniable genius for
spinning a yarn.
Now, I was well aware, as anyone reading Verne nowadays
should be, that he wrote for an audience with different
demands and expectations than a modern one, and that those
who would criticize his work must, to be fair, take this
into account. So it makes little sense to take JV to task
for his stereotyped characters, as his readers did not buy
his books for their depth of characterization; his coinci-
dence-riddled plots seem no more contrived for such fiction
of his day; the excess of scenery and dwelling on "local
color", easily tedious for a modern reader, was just the
thing that JV's 19th-century expected and most enjoyed.
All that said, however, I find it impossible to forgive
JV for what strikes me as out-and-out cheating -- the
revelation at the story's climax that Michael Strogoff has
been feigning his blindness all along.
Not only does JV retroactively rob the book's most gripping
sequence of its power by revealing that it never really
happened, but to do so he violates what any writer should
take as an inviolable principle: never, never lie to the
reader. To deliberately mislead, as mystery authors do as a
matter of course, is one thing, but if Verne chooses to
write "Michael Strogoff was blind," the reader has every
right to believe he means just that, and to be indignant on
finding out that it wasn't so.
That twist in the plot would be insupportable even if JV
had been a bit more subtle and only implied, rather than
flatly stating the "fact" of MS's blindness, since there is
no reason for our hero to go on faking it, and thereby
imposing a greater burden on Nadia, after the ruse had
worked in effecting their escape from the Tartars. Beside
all that, I flat-out don't buy the notion that it's
possible for a sighted person to convincingly simulate
blindness. Strogoff's best efforts to force his eyes to
appear to stare unseeing into the distance would very soon
be betrayed by their natural, automatic tendency to con-
verge on a nearby object and instantly give the game away.
In short, I'm willing to make allowances for the sake of
being fair, but this little trick of JV's stretched my
ability to do so way past the limit.
I may be coming back to this subject soon; I have a
recent biography of Verne on order, and now that my
interest has been stirred up I'll likely drop everything
else to dive into it.
*************************
Since I have some space left, I thought I might as well
share this slightly-connected anecdote by Isaac Asimov,
from his book THE STARS IN THEIR COURSES:
In my youth, my father discovered that science fiction
was my favorite reading matter. Memory stirred within him
and he said to me:
"Science fiction! Going to the moon! Aha! Tell me, did
you maybe ever read books by Zhoolvehrn?"
I stared at him blankly. "Who?"
"Zhoolvehrn," he repeated.
I was rather chagrined. I flattered myself that I knew
the important writers of the world, together with the
important *and* unimportant science fiction writers, and
it annoyed me to be found wanting.
"What did he write?" I asked.
"Science fiction. Going to the moon, and so on. Oh, and
he wrote a book about a man who went around the world in
eighty days."
Light broke with a blinding brilliance. I knew the
author well, but my father had never heard the name pro-
nounced in anything but the French fashion. I said (and
in the excitement my stately Brooklyn became a trifle
more prominent than usual) "Oh, sure. The author you
mean is Joolz Voin."
And my father said, "Who?"
Allen
=============== Reply 5 of Note 2 =================
To: VRCH78A ALLEN CROCKER Date: 01/15
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 2:42 PM
Allen,
I certainly agree with you about the translations. My very
old paperback copy didn't even attribute a translator, so I
expect s/he was the equivalent of those "artists" who do
assembly line paintings that are sold en masse in hotel
meeting rooms. Re: the blindness
Verne did cheat a bit, didn't he? I didn't buy the reason he
really WASN'T blinded. A bit of faux science it seems.
Sherry
=============== Reply 6 of Note 2 =================
To: VRCH78A ALLEN CROCKER Date: 01/15
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 2:43 PM
Meant to say I really appreciate your typing out the "Joolz
Voin" story. It was a hoot.
=============== Reply 7 of Note 2 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 01/15
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 3:14 PM
Yes, Allen, the Joolz Voin story was funny. Glad to see you
posting.
Ruth
=============== Reply 8 of Note 2 =================
To: VRCH78A ALLEN CROCKER Date: 01/15
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 9:26 PM
Hi Allen,
I always enjoy reading your well-thought out notes. I had a
feeling while I was reading that Michel wasn't really blind
even though the French says, "Michel Strogoff etait
aveugle," in a one sentence paragraph. As you said, it
translates as, "MS was blind." I was fairly sure that JV
would want to offer his readers a happy ending to this
romantic story. If Nadia were a modern character, she would
have let old Michel have it for letting her worry so much.
I also loved your Zhoolvairn story. It makes a French
teacher's heart glad. Jane in sunny CO
=============== Reply 9 of Note 2 =================
To: VRCH78A ALLEN CROCKER Date: 01/26
From: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Time: 3:28 AM
Allen Crocker
The blindness explanation didn''t set well with me either
on this re-reading. Most of my visuals of this story come
from an old movie. I remember Akim Tamirof played
Michael. I can't remember the actress who played Nadia,
but she had "haunting" eyes. Probably seen about 1940-1944
time frame. But this was one instance where the movie
improved upon the book.
The movie version had Michael crying (for the beauty he
would never again see) and the tears provided a protection
for the eyes. In this case he is blinded, but his sight
gradually returns, until he is faking blindness at the end.
An improvement on the master, I do believe.
=============== Reply 10 of Note 2 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 01/26
From: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Time: 3:28 AM
Sherry Keller
Another problem with translations is the widening
divergence between the English and the American ear. The
sounds and nuances that fit the English scene do not always
ring true; at least not for my American ear.
I would think the reverse is also true. You can spot this
in dubbed movies. Most French (for instance) movies are
dubbed by English actors. Proximity pays off. But they
grate on the ear. Occasionally, of late, you do run across
American actors, and it makes a heck of a difference.
Edd Houghton as the clock approaches midnight (Pacific
Time) and Denver has an edge on the rest of the world.
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Jules Verne
Michael Strogoff is indeed an adventure story, but Verne does indulge in another of his loves; geographical
details. By the time the final chapter appears you feel
that you are personally acquainted with the landscape
between Moscow and Irkutsk.
Edd
Verne can sure spin a good yarn, can't he? True, the
scene where he forsakes his mother is a bit harsh, but I
think that just goes with the territory of being a classic
hero. From Odysseus through the American westerns and
beyond, whenever it comes down to a choice between
momma/wife/sweetheart and foiling them evil-doers, then a
man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.
Dale
The sentences often were awkward or improper- but what the heck, who cares - I am involved in a deep adventure!
Ernie
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