Amazon.com:
One of the literary world's greatest dramas. Deserted by Jason, whose life she saved at a great cost to herself and others, and forced into exile by the father of her rival in love, Medea plots a barbaric revenge. The consequences wrought by her destructive actions, and by those who underestimate her bewitching power, are harrowing.
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (13 of 14),
Read 17 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
George Healy malword@ameritech.net
Date:
Friday, August 31, 2001 09:41 AM
Found a very interesting comment from the
poet/translator Richmond Lattimore:
'With Euripedes, tragedy is either transcending itself or
going into decline, in any case turning into something
else. If E is less of a master in his own medium than
Sophocles, it is partly because he was less happy in
that medium. This shows in the faults which his greatest
admirers will concede. There are signs of haste,
slovenliness, inconsequence, windiness, in most of his
best plays. Some whole plays are mediocre. His most
characteristic fault is to try to get too much into a single
plot or character or situation. His Medea is several kinds
of woman unsuccessfully assembled... His faults are
obvious. Equally obvious is his genius...'
I didn't myself take Medea as several personalities
sewn together on my first read through, I thought the
difference in her was the cleverness, a mind that can't
shut off even in the throes of anguished passion or
despair. Gonna go through it again with Lattimore's
criticism in mind. Thought I'd throw it out here because
the umbrella of protection that stems from putting the
label 'Classic' on a text interests me... sometimes I
assume there are no significant flaws in a book because
it's a classic, back covered with raves and homages,
etc.,
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (14 of 14),
Read 7 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Kay Dugan okaychatt@yahoo.com
Date:
Friday, August 31, 2001 07:58 PM
The following quote comes from an internet site that
claims Robert Graves' "The Greek Myths" Vol. 2,156e as
a source.
http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/1928/myth.htm
"(Jason) lost interest in Medea and married Creusa, the
daughter of the King of Corinth. Medea sent a poisoned
robe as a gift to Creusa, killing her. Creon, the King of
Corinth retaliated by killing 13 of Medea’s 14 children
and laid their bodies in the marketplace for all to see.
Here is where the histories become confused. Even 400
years after these events, tourists were still avoiding
Corinth. Nobody wanted to visit a country where the
king killed children. So, in the 5th century B.C., the
playwright Euripedes was hired to write a play
blaming Medea for the deaths of her children. He
reduced the number of her children from 14 to 2 and
then in his play, had Medea stabbing her own children.
This play convinced many people and this version of
events appears in most mythology books available
today."
Emphasis is my own.
The intro to my book discusses the importance of
Athens in the resolutions of "Medea," "Electra," and
"Heracles." Athens is seen as an example of a city that
"loved and honoured justice, integrity, and generosity,
and loved their city as the shining embodiment of those
virtues - which it was not." Athenians were seen as
having the "beauty of goodness, and in what their city
has sometimes tried to be, even if success had been
rare: the sanctuary of Hellas." Even Medea could expect
sanctuary in Athens with Aegeus.
The foreword argues that Jason should not be judged
harshly, as, after all, he is dealing with a barbarian
(Medea). It points out "...that when a community or a
nation has adopted, in its political and social
institutions, the quality of self-control, sophrosyne it
soon learns that this quality belongs only in limited
measure to its citizens; that the principle of barbarous
excess is predominant in most individuals, so that the
constant concern of government is to deal with
barbarism inside the walls..." (Is it me, or does that
sound a bit like the Grand Inquisitor?)
Though there may have been a lot of political intention
behind "Medea", I have to wonder at Philip Vellacott's
emphasis in his foreword. Surely that wasn't Euripides'
dramatic intent.
I think seeing this play performed would have me on
the edge of my seat, in a complete state of dread and
horror at Medea.
Isn't it interesting that the Corinthians had to change
the mythology by making the mother the villain? Medea
did make a few good points. NOW would have been
proud. Ha!
K
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (15 of 26),
Read 26 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Robert Armstrong rla@nac.net
Date:
Saturday, September 01, 2001 06:55 AM
Kay,
I have the same introduction in my Penguin edition.
There's something of a parallel between Athens and
America, in that both have idealistic identities as
bastions of civilization. American idealism is not always
met in reality, barbarism still exists within our society,
but that never stopped our patriotic spirit, and
evidently the same held true for Athens.
The play is riveting to me, too. I'd be on the edge of my
seat if I saw this live even knowing the outcome. It is a
horror story, isn't it? There's the tragedy,
destructiveness and horror of revenge and yet, the
vicarious thrill of it, too. There's something satisfying
about getting back at that smug S. O. B. all the while
being annihilated with its true consequences. This
story is the ultimate tragedy to me.
Any actress who plays Medea with real conviction must
have to be carried home on a stretcher after each
performance. Wow. What a role.
Robt
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (16 of 26),
Read 24 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Kay Dugan okaychatt@yahoo.com
Date:
Saturday, September 01, 2001 09:31 AM
"Smug S.O.B." Ah, yes, Robt. That about sums Jason up
in this play.
That's some custody battle, isn't it? Those children are
the pawns of power.
It's interesting that Medea falters in her decision so
many times, which indicates her genuine love for her
sons. It takes her rage against Jason to find the nerve
to kill them. What would her defense be in today's
courts?
Temporary insanity? No, she knew what she was doing
was wrong. Post partum psychosis? No, they're old
enough to walk about and know what's happening.
Aha - I have it - "It's all HIS fault! He made me do it. I
put him through Power School, and this is the thanks I
get!"
I'm curious about the reception the play got from the
Greeks. They were familiar with the original story, of
how Creon had 13 of her 14 children killed and
displayed in the public square. They had to be aware
that the story had changed, and for what reasons.
They must have also been aware of her character - she
was the one that had put the childless curse on
Aegeus. They knew the story of Jason and the
Argonauts, and her willingness to murder her brother
to help Jason escape. They also knew of her trick on
Pelias' daughters to get them to murder their father, so
Jason could thrive. She was a piece of work, so they
may have been willing to believe her capable of
infanticide.
All that cultural information would have put a twist on
the play, I think. It's still a horror story and a cathartic
event, nevertheless.
K
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (17 of 26),
Read 24 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ann Davey davey@tconl.com
Date:
Saturday, September 01, 2001 10:03 AM
I've been out of town and haven't had a chance to
read the play yet, but before I left I checked out a
video of the play from the library. Judith Anderson and
Colleen Dewherst are in the cast. It should be good.
Ann
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (18 of 26),
Read 24 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Robert Armstrong rla@nac.net
Date:
Saturday, September 01, 2001 11:33 AM
Kay,
I didn't realize that Medea had put a childless curse on
Aegeus. Why then would they still be friends? Aegeus
seemed to be unaware that Medea had done this to
him in Euripides' play.
Were Medea and Jason historical figures as well as
mythological ones?
The "It's all HIS fault" defense cracked me up.
Robt
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (19 of 26),
Read 20 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Saturday, September 01, 2001 01:13 PM
I've seen this on the stage. It was about 2 eons ago,
at UCLA, a traveling production, not a student job. I
hate to report that I remember not being entirely
grabbed. Greek drama is so stylized in its presentation,
with the chorus and all, that it seldoms grabs me
emotionally like a more contemporary piece would. That
said, this is still a powerful play. I'm about 3/4 through
my reread.
Ruth
"Citizen!
Consider my traveling expenses: Poetry—all of it—is a trip
into the unknown. " Vladimir Mayakovksy
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (20 of 26),
Read 16 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Kay Dugan okaychatt@yahoo.com
Date:
Saturday, September 01, 2001 02:42 PM
Robt-
I think Jason, Medea, and Creon were solely
mythological figures. However, if the online article citing
Robert Graves is correct, Euripides was hired to change
the myth so people wouldn't want to avoid Corinth.
According to the article, even 400 years after the
supposed event where Creon murdered Medea's sons
and displayed them in the city square, Corinth suffered
from an image problem. No one wanted to visit a city
where a king had put children to death. Euripides was
hired to change the myth. The quote from my post #14
is found about 2/3 of the way down the page. (link
posted below) The paragraph starts
with...."Meanwhile, Pelias still refused to give Jason the
throne."
Whether the statement is accurate or not, I do not
know. If it is, I find it fascinating. I'm not ready to tackle
Graves' "Greek Myths" to verify.
http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/1928/myth.htm
K
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (21 of 26),
Read 14 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Robert Armstrong rla@nac.net
Date:
Saturday, September 01, 2001 03:47 PM
Kay,
Very interesting about Euripides' attempt to change
the myth. I agree that the play is so strong that it is
hard to believe that changing the myth was his primary
goal.
Robt
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (22 of 26),
Read 16 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Sherri Kendrick sheval@hotmail.com
Date:
Saturday, September 01, 2001 03:48 PM
I've just started my first reading of this, and so far it's
interesting. I love the idea of Euripedes writing the
play to give Corinth a better name. Slander the
woman, save the town, seems like a fair trade to me.
Sherri
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (23 of 26),
Read 15 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Saturday, September 01, 2001 04:04 PM
Fourteen kids!!! No wonder she murdered them.
Ruth
"Citizen!
Consider my traveling expenses: Poetry—all of it—is a trip
into the unknown. " Vladimir Mayakovksy
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (24 of 26),
Read 13 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Kay Dugan okaychatt@yahoo.com
Date:
Saturday, September 01, 2001 06:19 PM
Ruth - Creon murdered them in the original myth. He
seemed to be a tad miffed at Medea's poisoning of his
daughter. Gee - can't imagine why.
Sherri- Had to laugh at your "Slander the woman, save
the town, seems like a fair trade to me." Good one!
All - IF the story is true and Euripides did re-write the
myth to benefit the town, I have to wonder if he gave
Medea such a strong platform from which to spout her
feminist lines because he saw the irony, or if it was a
theatrical necessity. Probably the latter.
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the recent
news story of the mother who drowned her 5 children.
I was reminded of her when I read "I understand the
horror of what I am going to do; but anger, The spring
of all life's horror, masters my resolve." The deadly
rage and despair that drove that mother was the same
one that drove Medea. The actual reasons may have
differed, but the power of that intense an emotion
staggers the mind.
Even when Medea is considering the murders because
she fears Creon's retaliation, she carries my empathy.
That would be a terrible situation to be in. I am
reminded of the scene in "Beloved" where Sethe hurls
her children to kill them. She does not want them to
become slaves. And here I thought she was a little
over the top. Perhaps the problem is I cannot imagine
any degree of passion that would override a mother's
natural instinct to protect her children.
Ruth-
How did the actress portray Medea? As truly torn in the
beginning? Or as trying to justify herself for murdering
solely out of a sense of rage against Jason?
K
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (25 of 26),
Read 10 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Saturday, September 01, 2001 07:47 PM
Kay, it was so long ago that mostly what I remember is
a lot of brow-beating and emotional rhetoric. All nuance
has been lost in the mists...
Ruth
"Citizen!
Consider my traveling expenses: Poetry—all of it—is a trip
into the unknown. " Vladimir Mayakovksy
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (26 of 26),
Read 6 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Sherri Kendrick sheval@hotmail.com
Date:
Sunday, September 02, 2001 07:27 AM
I finished this last night, and found it easy reading. I
remember from school days having a hard time with
Greek plays, but this was easy.
I'm not sure where I put blame, Medea certainly for
going too far, but Jason didn't seem very considerate
either. Even if Medea didn't help him as much as she
thought, he seemed rather blase about dumping her.
It also seemed that Jason, and the King only thought
women were good for one thing, sex! and when that is
taken away, they don't understand why she should get
angry. "Mere sexual jealousy", that's what Jason says
it is and Medea should not make such a big deal about
it. But she had nothing else in life, but being a wife, it
wasn't like she could go out and get a job, without a
husband she was nothing.
Sherri
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (27 of 47),
Read 45 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
George Healy malword@ameritech.net
Date:
Sunday, September 02, 2001 11:05 AM
I'm having trouble with what specifically is motivating
Medea's revenge. I wonder if Euripedes could've said
what Flaubert said when asked about M. Bovary... 'I am
Medea'.
She says numerous times something to the effect of 'I will
not fade into the background to be laughed at.'
Line 1353-54:
"No, it was not to be that you should scorn my love, and
pleasantly live your life through, laughing at me..."
Line 1048-50:
"No, no, I will not do it. I renounce my plans. Ah, what is
wrong with me? Do I want to let go my enemies unhurt
and be laughed at for it? I must face this thing."
Line 1362 (Medea to Jason):
"Yes, and my grief is gain when you cannot mock it."
I'm having trouble seeing even a highly intelligent and
proud woman slaughtering her children to avoid becoming
laughable... certainly she has various other reasons to
commit her crime, but Euripedes heavily stresses this one,
or so it seems to me.
Euripedes was a master-mocker. My experience of people
tells me that most of those who are good at mockery are
driven to be so for fear of being ridiculed themselves. I'm
suspicious of this strain of Medea's motivation... it sounds
more like the voice of a very proud and angry genius than
like the voice of a bereft wife and mother.
I do love the part where Medea wishes counterfeit men
could be detected and stamped like counterfeit money... a
great sentiment.
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (28 of 47),
Read 39 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ann Davey davey@tconl.com
Date:
Sunday, September 02, 2001 12:07 PM
George,
Hell hath no fury, etc.
Ann
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (29 of 47),
Read 39 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Kay Dugan okaychatt@yahoo.com
Date:
Sunday, September 02, 2001 12:18 PM
George-
I have trouble identifying with Medea as well.
Intellectually, I follow her reasoning, but I totally lose any
sense of identification when she actually murders her
children to get back at Jason. That's the step I cannot
understand. We're not meant to understand. Euripides
made sure of that.
It's not as if Medea is oblivious to her use of the children.
Sometimes parents can unwittingly use their children as
middle men in a divorce, but Medea was fully aware.
Are you saying that Euripides projected his own character
into Medea's? That he carried that trait to its extremes as
a kind of experiment? Interesting.
When I consider that Medea is the granddaughter of
Helios, the sun god, I begin to realize she's only part
human. The gods were notoriously indifferent to
individuals and focused on satisfying their every whim.
She was a sorceress, a descendant of the gods, and
therefore prone to their trait of satisfying each and every
narcissistic need.
There is something inhuman about the murdering of
children. If I see Medea as a part goddess, I can more
easily account for her unbelievable act. Unfortunately, that
retreat is not possible when I am confronted by humans
that kill their children.
K
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (30 of 47),
Read 37 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Sherri Kendrick sheval@hotmail.com
Date:
Sunday, September 02, 2001 12:53 PM
I, too, kept noticing the not wanting to be laughed at
lines. To her that seemed as bad if not worse than being
dumped.
I didn't realize she was descended from Helios, but even
being part goddess, she seems to take the revenge a bit
far.
In some ways it seems very light - Medea helps Jason, the
get married, have kids, then he dumps her for a "better"
(younger) woman. Medea feels like an idiot and wants
revenge. Yet there has got to be a lot more than that, and
trying to understand why, or would the play have been
important, or am I being simple, and that is the whole
point?
Sherri
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (31 of 47),
Read 39 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Sunday, September 02, 2001 01:03 PM
I wish I remembered more about Greek theatre from my
brief period as a drama major. I have a feeling we're
missing something here. Perhaps we need to know more
about how the Greeks regarded theatre and what they
expected of their plays.
We're looking at the play with 20th century eyes,
analyzing motive, etc. I'm wondering if the Greeks saw
them more as fable, or metaphor, or something along
those lines.
I do remember that they often wore masks. Maybe with
their faces covered, and unable to portray emotion with
facial expressions, they upped the ante on the actions in
the play.
Just musing here.
Ruth
"Citizen!
Consider my traveling expenses: Poetry—all of it—is a trip
into the unknown. " Vladimir Mayakovksy
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (32 of 47),
Read 40 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
George Healy malword@ameritech.net
Date:
Sunday, September 02, 2001 01:12 PM
Sherri & Ruth--
Good points and questions. I got a similar feeling:
powerful language, something missing underneath.
Euripedes' The Bacchae is one of my ten favorite plays of
all time... I went into this expecting to like Medea more
than I did. Perhaps Lattimore was right, and the
something missing is the fault of an author in a rush.
Ruth's point stands, and I actually read an essay that said
we can't ever know what Aeschylus and his peers were
up to because too much context is lost.
I'll take the play as a beautiful relic made of an
indeterminate metal.
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (33 of 47),
Read 40 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Sunday, September 02, 2001 02:40 PM
I started prowling around for info on Greek theatre. I was
quickly waylaid by the images, of course.
Here’s a Red-Figure (the red is the clay of the vase, the
black is the painted on slip) Volute krater (that’s just a
description of the shape of the vase) that shows Medea's
vengeance.
It’s from 330 B.C. - 310 B.C, which would put it about 100
years later than Euripedes play, 431 BC. (When we visit
Milwaukee Museum of Art, we’ll see a red-figured vase
from 461 BC, but it doesn’t show Medea.)
These images don't want to come up here. I suspect it's
because the URL won't come up as a jpg. But if you just
click on the link, you can see them.
Volute krater depicting Medea: Drawing of side A
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/image?lookup=1993.01.0476
And some details:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/image?lookup=1993.01.0477
Volute krater depicting Medea: Drawing of side A (left)
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/image?lookup=1993.01.0478
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/image?lookup=1993.01.0479
And I discovered what looks like a useful site for more
netcrawling on Medea, Euripedes, and ancient Greek
theatre.
http://english.tyler.cc.tx.us/engl2332nbyr/Euripedes.htm
Ruth
"Citizen!
Consider my traveling expenses: Poetry—all of it—is a trip
into the unknown. " Vladimir Mayakovksy
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (34 of 47),
Read 38 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Kay Dugan okaychatt@yahoo.com
Date:
Sunday, September 02, 2001 05:20 PM
Wasn't catharsis an objective in Greek drama? The
audience was expected to leave the theater emotionally
drained and ready to start anew. I'm culling this from
classes taken centuries ago, in my youth.
The Chorus was meant to speak the truth as it
commented on the drama, I think.
My guess is that reading the play is nowhere near the
experience that seeing it would be. I think the impact
would feel more horrific were I to witness the events on
stage.
K
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (35 of 47),
Read 43 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Sunday, September 02, 2001 06:03 PM
I remember that catharsis business now that you mention
it, Kay. And I did find out this morning that Greek theatre
grew out of the Dionysian cermonies.
I don't remember being particularly affected by seeing
Medea on stage. But then I knew what was coming.
Ruth
"Citizen!
Consider my traveling expenses: Poetry—all of it—is a trip
into the unknown. " Vladimir Mayakovksy
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (36 of 47),
Read 42 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ann Davey davey@tconl.com
Date:
Sunday, September 02, 2001 10:32 PM
This was a quick read. I read it in one sitting and it held
my interest throughout. The translation by Phillip Vellacott
was very smooth.
Like the rest of you, I can't begin to explain Medea's
murder of her children. I can't imagine myself so consumed
by rage that
I could destroy my own children. And yet, we do read
about such people in the newspapers. To give only two
recent examples, there is the woman suffering from
postpartum depression who drowned her 5 children and
the Ukrainian immigrant who killed his pregnant wife and
his young son. We generally assume that these people
are crazy because their actions are so irrational. So, was
Medea insane? What do you think?
Ruth,you cited the following internet source:
http://english.tyler.cc.tx.us/engl2332nbyr/Euripedes.htm.
This is an outline for an internet based world literature
course from Tyler Junior College. A woman named Noamie
Byrum is responsible for the course. According to her
online notes, the main themes of the play are:
1. Uncontrolled emotions of anger and jealousy overcome
reason and bring disaster to all. (Passion over reason)
2.Internal conflict of emotions. Medea is torn between
emotions of mother love and the desire for revenge.
3.Argument for women's rights--creates sympathy for
women who serve as inferiors under the Greek marriage
custom.
I can buy #1 and #2 pretty easily, but I'm not so sure
about #3. What do you all think?
For me, it is hard to think of Medea supporting any
argument for women's lib. I think her most chilling lines
are these, which follow Jason's comments on her murder
of their sons.
Jason: You suffer too; my loss is yours no less.
Medea: It is true;
But my pain's a fair price, to take away your smile.
Ann
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (37 of 47),
Read 39 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Sherri Kendrick sheval@hotmail.com
Date:
Monday, September 03, 2001 07:31 AM
I think reason #3 was working earlier on, mentioning how
she now has nothing, nowhere to go, no way to live
without Jason's support. But as she gets angrier, and her
rage overcomes everything, I think that reason falls by
the wayside.
To a certain extent I can understand her rage, but her
wanting to do all this so that her enemies won't laugh at
her seems a bit far fetched.
Sherri
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (38 of 47),
Read 40 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, September 03, 2001 12:19 PM
A lot of harm has been done because of pride.
I saw quite a few references to Euripedes and women
while I was poking around in the ether. Evidently this was
quite an issue with him.
Maybe #3 can be supported because 1)he shows how
badly women were treated in Greek society and 2)he
shows a strong woman who says in effect, "I've had it up
to here and I ain't gonna take it any more, so don't mess
around with me."
Ruth
"Citizen!
Consider my traveling expenses: Poetry—all of it—is a trip
into the unknown. " Vladimir Mayakovksy
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (39 of 47),
Read 40 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Pres Lancaster plancast@neteze.com
Date:
Monday, September 03, 2001 12:24 PM
Thanks, RUTH, for the links, both to the vase art and the
lit course.
Two things I've noted from various readings so far :
a) That it is possible that Medea kills the children herself
rather than let them be killed by the community, as they
doomed to be because of her crimes. There is talk, too, of
the "revenge" of leaving Jason childless, but this would be
meaningless if the children are to be killed by the state.
And what does the horror of their accepted, expected
deaths say about revenge by the community.
b) That Euripides poetry was so well thought of that there
are stories of captives of war being freed because they
could quote his lines. Further, his reputation was great in
ancient times - much written about and quoted by other
writers in the following centuries (see Moses Hadas'
Ancilla to Classical Literature).
Another important aspect of the writing was its use of the
people's speech forms rather than the ritual, hieratic
speech of earlier drama. Euripides was much mocked by
Aristophanes and other "traditional" writers of the times.
Obviously, the point of drama is drama, but the then
almost fundamental story of Medea and Jason only
becomes something special if the dramatist shows it in a
new light. (Assuming, of course, we put aside the value
we assign to the play by mere reason of the fact that it
has survived from antiquity.)
pres
The eternal verities don't seem to have much of a shelf-life
these days.
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (40 of 47),
Read 37 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ann Davey davey@tconl.com
Date:
Monday, September 03, 2001 02:13 PM
Pres,
God point about Medea justifying her actions because the
children would have died a worse death at the hands of
her enemies.
Ann
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (41 of 47),
Read 38 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Kay Dugan okaychatt@yahoo.com
Date:
Monday, September 03, 2001 07:00 PM
Medea used that argument early on in the play, but by the
end, she admitted she killed her sons solely as revenge
against Jason.
K
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (42 of 47),
Read 34 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Monday, September 03, 2001 08:36 PM
I just finished reading the online version Theresa
provided. Gosh! Things haven't changed much since this
was written! Jason finds this younger, richer chick and
what does he say to his wife?
"I'm doing this for you, honey..so you'll be rich and our
kids will be considered royalty"..(Oh, Jason! Shame on
you!)
My favorite line in the entire play is this little goodie from
Jason:
"for it is but natural to the female sex to vent their spleen
against a husband when he trafficks in other marriages
besides his own."
Oh, no kidding.. Trust me, if my husband 'trafficked' in any
other marriage but our own, it would be more than a
spleen I'd 'vent'.
Beej
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (43 of 47),
Read 34 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ann Davey davey@tconl.com
Date:
Tuesday, September 04, 2001 12:30 AM
Beej,
Me too. :)
Actually, I was surprised that an ancient Greek woman
expressed herself so aggressively. From what I have read
about Greek society, it was completely male dominated.
Very few women played any active role outside their own
households. Of course, Medea, as a socceress, was not
your average female. It would really be interesting to
know how Euripides' contemporaries reacted to this play.
I did find it interesting that Medea said she might have
understood his actions if she had failed to provide him
with sons. Modern attitudes have changed, but through
most of history producing a male heir was a wife's primary
duty.
My translation makes several references to Medea's
"sexual jealousy." I have concluded that the whole
problem with Medea and Jason's marriage is that it
started as a love match. If it had been the usual (I
presume) arranged marriage, Medea would not have
become so consumed with anger and jealousy.
Ann
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (44 of 47),
Read 37 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Tuesday, September 04, 2001 01:02 AM
Ann, that might connect with the praise of moderation
which is heard in the nurses first speech and is later
repeated.
Dean.
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (45 of 47),
Read 24 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Sherri Kendrick sheval@hotmail.com
Date:
Tuesday, September 04, 2001 07:30 AM
Couple of things, one sort of off topic, but I was reading a
mystery-Dressed to Die by Connor, and in it a woman dies
by suddenly bursting into flames. It turns out a graduate
student, a classist and chemist, had worked out the
formula used on Hercules tunic, and Medea's tunic, that
caused them to burn. I looked back at my copy, and it
says the gown poisoned her, but the coronet burst into
flames. A little confusion, but I loved how Medea popped
up in an unexpected place.
Looking through Medea, I found another quote by Jason
that I loved:
"Was such a plan, then, wicked?Even you would approve
if you could govern your sex-jealousy. But you women
have reached a state where, if all's well with your sex-life,
you've everything you wish for; but when that goes
wrong, at once all that is best and novlest turns to gall. If
only children could be got some other way, without the
female sex! If women didn't exist, human life would be rid
of all its miseries."
That last part really got me, I was laughing and furious at
the same time.
I also came across another site on Medea, but I haven't
fully checked it out:
www.webcom.com/shownet/medea/grklink.html
Sherri
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (46 of 47),
Read 14 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ann Davey davey@tconl.com
Date:
Tuesday, September 04, 2001 02:27 PM
Dean,
Yes, it makes sense that the chorus reflects the ideas of
most of the audience. If so, it is significant that they show
a lot of sympathy for Medea's situation, at least in the
beginning.
Didn't the Greeks invent the concept of the golden mean?
Sherri,
Yeah, if only women wouldn't be so emotional. Good old
Jason, only looking out for the best interests of the family
as a whole --- :)
Ann
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (47 of 47),
Read 13 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Tuesday, September 04, 2001 05:14 PM
Right you are, Ann. The Golden Mean is a ratio which was
said to produce aesthetically perfect proportions. It was
derived by the Greeks and used by both the Egyptians
and the Greeks in their designs.
Sherri, Jason seems to have conveniently forgotten much.
Jason's speech is even disingenuous. He is not dealing
with an ordinary woman. She was royalty in her
fatherland, she is the granddaughter of the sun and she
is a mighty sorceress. All these things which made Medea
exceptional were put to use in his service and he now
ignores them and his vow to her.
I thought that the conversation between King Creon and
Medea showed a fascinating contrast and even a reversal.
The King loves his children first then his fatherland. For
Medea, fatherland comes first. So Jason's marriage to
assure Greek citizenship for them is no consolation to
Medea who will have to live subservient to her new
mistress. This speech of Jason and his secrecy about the
wedding call his credibility into question.
By the way, I should think that Aegeus will think twice,
which is once more than Jason did, before he breaks his
oath of sanctuary to Medea.
The calculated nature of Medea's moves is chilling.
The other reversal which I noticed was the speech by the
Chorus which said happy are they who have no children.
Dean.
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (48 of 54),
Read 38 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Chrees . condrieu@yahoo.com
Date:
Tuesday, September 04, 2001 09:02 PM
Two good sites I found with helpful foreground
information:
http://www.webcom.com/shownet/bulfinch/fables/bull17.html
http://hsa.brown.edu/~maicar/Medea.html
I just finished reading the play this morning, so here
are some first drafts or attempts at collecting my
thoughts. There is so much to cover in this play, but I'll
keep it to a few points so I don't ramble all over the
place. And I need to go back and read all the other
comments as well (only made it halfway through
because of a slow isp).
I find it very difficult to read something this old since I
tend to impose current standards and morality on the
action. It seems there are many values competing or at
odds with each other in the play. Maybe I'm reading
too much into it, but the overriding value seems to be
fealty to ruler and country. Everything else seems to be
subservient to the proper role an individual is
supposed to play in the community. Or rather, being a
proper citizen will guide you in what you are supposed
to do in your other roles. Those who are a threat to the
state are also threats to family, friends, and social
order.
The amazing thing to me in the play is the lack of
responsibility everyone displays. Denial and blame are
the common methods of dealing with events. At times,
it seems everyone has a good and defensible rationale
for what they have done, but no one tries to
understand the other person.
Medea is the only character that 'evolves' or changes,
and unfortunately (?) she moves from suicidal lethargy
to murderous rage. Which, in one sense, is the state
she was accustomed to and not really a development
(given her previous murders and plots). It seems
Euripides wants to have his cake and eat it too with
Medea at times-he uses her as a mouthpiece to
condemn the subordinate status of women in society,
yet also has her perform monstrous acts so everyone
can ultimately condemn her. By doing this, is he also
providing an 'out' for what he has her saying earlier in
the play?
The incredible sense of nationalism (Medea no longer
"lives among barbarians" and while "living at the ends
of the earth, nobody would have heard of you"
comments) plays to the audience and the way Athens
probably thought of itself (again, making it hard to
avoid imposing current judgment). I can't help but think
that many of Jason's arguments that we view as
absurd rationalizations would have been regarded by
Athenians of the time as just and well reasoned.
Aegeus' brief part seems to play to the crowd in that
Athens can supply reason and justice to the world,
while at the same time underscoring the irony of the
barbarism within their own refined culture.
A few more quick notes since I haven't succeeded in
avoiding rambling:
It is an interesting paradox that I view Medea as more
heroic than Jason and I think helps present the
complexity and depth of human character. I need to
think about Jason's character before I make too many
comments on him, especially in light of his previous
heroics and how Athenians of the day would have
viewed him.
I find it interesting the emphasis put on love, marriage,
children and all the burdens these things bring into the
world. The Chorus laments how tough it is to have kids,
while Jason comments on how love blinded him to the
monstrous things that Medea had done in the past. (A
great attitude! "I loved you while the evil you did
helped me. But I could have done all those things
without your help." Typical guy, right? *lol*) Several
lines reflect the depth of hatred that can replace love.
What role do the gods play? The last lines of the
chorus seem to give the "gods work in mysterious
ways" argument, but also seems to say that our
actions are independent of the gods. And throughout
the play, Euripides seems to puts the blame squarely
on human shoulders.
Lastly, I couldn't help but laugh at the Chorus. I
pictured a sympathetic daytime host or panel ("you
said it honey, kick that man to the curb! Ditch that zero
and get yourself a hero!") until Medea begins to
consider murdering her children ("say what? now hold
on hon and think about this for a spell!").
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (49 of 54),
Read 40 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, September 04, 2001 09:19 PM
Crees, Welcome to Constant Reader..What a great
post!
Beej
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (50 of 54),
Read 47 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Edward Houghton eddh@pacbell.net
Date:
Wednesday, September 05, 2001 02:30 AM
It is difficult to fully understand the Greek society that
watched this play. But Euripides was writing of a time
and place where he also did not fully understand the
customs and mores of the participants.
We are left with a story seen through two prisms, or
more. And then throw in the tourist trade, the politics
of the day, and the logistics of presenting a play to an
audience for enjoyment. It's a wonder anything is
coherent. The logic does seem to hold up, although
historical veracity may be in doubt.
EDD
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (51 of 54),
Read 29 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Chrees . condrieu@yahoo.com
Date:
Wednesday, September 05, 2001 11:18 PM
Maybe there is the additional irony of the play that it
was performed first in 431 B.C., the same year that
Athens and Sparta started their long war. Need to pull
out my Thucydides (no, that isn't a sexual reference)
and refresh myself on the destruction that Athens
realized over the next 3 decades.
Those darn barbarians...
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (52 of 54),
Read 24 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ann Davey davey@tconl.com
Date:
Thursday, September 06, 2001 02:10 PM
Chrees,
Welcome to Classics Corner. I've been enjoying your
notes.
You mentioned the Spartans. I will never forget
learning in high school world history that the Spartan
women used to say to their sons, "Come home with
your shields or on them." In other words, better dead
than defeated. Now there were some tough women. I
used to say the shields bit jokingly to my boys before
soccer games, but I think they just thought I was nuts.
Ann
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (53 of 54),
Read 28 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Chrees . condrieu@yahoo.com
Date:
Thursday, September 06, 2001 09:37 PM
Thanks Ann. And it doesn't matter what you would
have said...your boys would have thought you nuts
anyway. It's a phase we go through before we realize
how smart and strong our mothers really are. *lol*
I'm still working on my thoughts on Jason, but the more
I think about it, the more I think E's audience would
have reacted to his explanations and excuses
differently than we do. I need to re-read the play to
figure out why, though.
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (54 of 54),
Read 11 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ann Davey davey@tconl.com
Date:
Friday, September 07, 2001 03:54 PM
Chrees,
Unfortunately my college age sons still have not
reached the age where they recognize my brilliance. :)
:)
I really wonder how contemporary audiences of
Euripides reacted to Jason and the other characters
too. The plot of MEDEA, with two characters burning to
death and two children murdered by their mother,
seems extreme to modern readers, but Greek
tragedies seem to be full of hideous things happening
to the characters. I suppose the Greek world was so
much more threatening and unpredictable than our
own that audiences took these awful stories somewhat
in stride.
In Greek mythology the gods seem to be the worst
offenders against morality, but the very human Medea
managed to screw things up almost as well as any god.
The fact that she was 1/4 divine might help explain her
ruthlessness.
Ann
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (55 of 59),
Read 22 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Theresa Simpson theresa.a.simpson@gte.net
Date:
Monday, September 10, 2001 03:00 AM
I nominated this for CC. I read it years ago, and have
also heard a fantastic reading on NPR. This reading
disappointed me - I wish I had access to whatever
dramatization it was I heard, it impressed me so much
at the time.
I think this is a very simple story compared to, say,
Sophocles' tales. Jason is the "bad boy" the spoiled, but
very clever, rich girl takes off with, betraying homeland
and family only to have him ditch her in a foreign land.
And so Medea, voice of the emotions and a very spoiled
girl, has one major, major temper tantrum. While old
Jason, voice here of reason, doesn't really have a clue.
What makes the plot semi-interesting is that the
emotional Medea (a mark of barbarism to the Greeks,
antithesis to Greek adoration of reason above all) is so
darn clever. Otherwise, she would have ranted and
raged to no avail.
Theresa
I had to quit my fire-eating career when I could no
longer tell when to spit and when to swallow. Daphne
Gottlieb
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (56 of 59),
Read 21 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Kay Dugan okaychatt@yahoo.com
Date:
Monday, September 10, 2001 08:16 AM
Aha! Theresa's comment about how the Greeks loved
reason above all is interesting. Euripides used Medea's
passions to stress her barbarism and as a
complimentary contrast to the Greeks. That was a
subtlety I had missed.
How interesting to compare our modern view of the play
to the Greek view. The Greeks thought Jason the
epitome of heroism and were supportive of his
reasoned arguments. We see him more as a user and a
philanderer.
Theresa- When you heard it read, how did the actress
portray Medea? Was she truly agonizing over killing her
children in the beginning, or was she just trying to work
herself up to what she knew she was going to do as
revenge?
K
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (57 of 59),
Read 13 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Robert Armstrong rla@nac.net
Date:
Monday, September 10, 2001 07:02 PM
I thought Euripides was challenging the supremacy of
reason by making Jason (the voice of reason) so
unreasonable and so heartless and thereby bringing
public opinion, as voiced by the Chorus, to Medea’s side
initially. Ultimately, the play speaks to the inadequacy of
reason alone and how, without compassion, it opens
the way to ruin.
Theresa, I'm so glad you nominated MEDEA. I think it is
a very powerful play.
Robt
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (58 of 59),
Read 18 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Theresa Simpson theresa.a.simpson@gte.net
Date:
Tuesday, September 11, 2001 02:33 AM
Kay, she portrayed her as a woman in the throes of
extreme emotional anguish. It really was mesmerizing.
It was also quite a few years ago, I've no way of finding
out which particular reading this was.
Theresa
I had to quit my fire-eating career when I could no
longer tell when to spit and when to swallow. Daphne
Gottlieb
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (59 of 59),
Read 17 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Kay Dugan okaychatt@yahoo.com
Date:
Tuesday, September 11, 2001 04:40 AM
So the audience was pulled into her "dilemma." I would
like to see this play performed because the distance I
have from a reading does not allow me to understand a
passion for revenge overwhelming her love for her
children. It is difficult to imagine that kind of selfish
quest for satisfaction against a spouse that has done
her wrong.
All that illustrates Robt's point that reason without
compassion leads to the unthinkable.
K
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (60 of 66),
Read 29 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Robert Armstrong rla@nac.net
Date:
Friday, September 14, 2001 12:19 AM
The big theme in Medea is revenge. That theme seems
pertinent to me today.
Here are some excerpts from an editorial in today's New
York Post: "The men behind the men who rained havoc
down need to be called to account. The heavens need to
fall on their heads. They need to bleed. Not next month.
Not next week. Now. Who are they? Who cares? Cast a
wide enough net and you'll catch the fish that need
catching……..Locate them. Bomb them……The weight of
American military might-just short of nuclear
oblivion-needs to be visited upon those who planned
and executed Tuesday's attacks. And also on those who
support the terror. America needs to strike hard-and as
often as it takes to impose peace………Bombs away!"
There is a point in the play where Medea has the
complete sympathy of both the Chorus and the audience
due to the injustice of her treatment. Then in a blind
rage, Medea destroys not only her enemies, but also
everyone she loved and ultimately herself.
So, I am not interested in a global tragedy and neither is
anyone else. I don't think Medea was much interested in
a tragedy either. I take from Euripedes' play a warning
about the self-destructive force of our own fury.
As Shakespeare said: "All the world's a stage." The play
has begun.
Robt
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (61 of 66),
Read 27 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Gail Singer gailsinger_gross@hotmail.com
Date:
Friday, September 14, 2001 05:21 AM
very well said...
gail..in the wee small hours of the morning...
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (62 of 66),
Read 27 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Chrees . condrieu@yahoo.com
Date:
Monday, September 17, 2001 11:12 PM
I skimmed through the play today and came to some
different conclusions from the first pass. I’m still
struggling how to express the currents within the play as
I feel them (so excuse the rambling). I think there are
divergent messages in the play.
As Robert alluded to, some of the play is social
commentary. For example, Medea’s speech to the Chorus
(starting with line 214) bemoans the fate of women and
their status in society and is supported by the Chorus. I
also think Jason is cast in an unflattering light
deliberately, to taint both him and men who take their
roles and responsibilities lightly.
But there are counter-themes underneath the surface as
well. Specifically mentioned by Jason is the superiority of
living in ‘Greece’: “Firstly, instead of living among
barbarians, / You inhabit a Greek land and understand
our ways, / How to live by law instead of the sweet will
of force.” I think this is key to what happens in the play.
Medea, instead of appealing to any form of redress,
threatens her husband, his new wife, and the king.
(Counterpoint: what avenue was available to her to
mitigate what happened?). Meanwhile, Creon (and the
law) failed in their responsibilities by allowing Medea to
stay one additional day, which allowed the destruction to
happen.
It seems to be a two-fold approach from Euripides:
support for Greek society/law by saying they are
superior to anything else on earth (but don’t fail strongly
enforcing the order to avoid such atrocities), yet at the
same time commenting on what needs improving in the
‘superior’ society to maintain supremacy and avoid
chaotic events in the first place.
On a side note, there is a local production of the play “By
the Bog of Cats…” (1998) by Marina Carr that draws
heavily on “Medea” (or at least according to the reviews
I’ve read). I’m hoping to see it before it ends its run.
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (63 of 66),
Read 30 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dottie Randall randallj@ix.netcom.com
Date:
Tuesday, September 18, 2001 02:34 AM
Chrees -- in reading through your analysis of Medea
much came through in my mind as applicable to the
position of the US to the current situation. Me thinks I
will have to think about it a bit and come back.
Dottie
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (64 of 66),
Read 23 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Chrees . condrieu@yahoo.com
Date:
Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:12 AM
Dottie,
I was afraid it would seem that I was influenced by the
recent events, but these were thoughts I was struggling
with the first time through the play. There clearly is an
"us vs. them" (or rather civilized vs. barbarian) theme.
The more I think about this play, the more I realize there
is much more depth than first appeared.
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (65 of 66),
Read 17 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ann Davey davey@tconl.com
Date:
Wednesday, September 19, 2001 02:08 PM
Chrees,
Considering how highly developed Greek culture was in
comparison with the rest of the world, maybe this was
one case where the dominant culture was justified in
touting its superiority?
Ann
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (66 of 66),
Read 15 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Wednesday, September 19, 2001 05:59 PM
It seems to me that, at a certain point in the play, Medea
has it all. Jason has said that he will provide whatever
support she wants. Aegues has provided a place of
refuge for her and her children. Yet, she chooses to inflict
a terrible revenge. I think that what really infuriates her
is hypocrisy and deceit. For her to accept an outcome
which does not challenge the lies would be to bring
unacceptable ridicule on herself.
Both Medea and Jason uphold higher principles. For
Medea, it is the sanctity of the oath. For Jason, it is the
value of Greek citizenship. The play is a conflict between
the pride of being Greek and the "old ways" which
valued oaths. When these two principles are not in
accord, Euripides shows us that the result can only be
horrible tragedy.
Dean.
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (67 of 69),
Read 19 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Chrees . condrieu@yahoo.com
Date:
Saturday, September 22, 2001 03:21 PM
Ann, maybe they were justified to some extent. Part of
the reaction today to how callous the 'barbarian'
comments are has to be from the recent multicultural
push that is everywhere. I won't get into any politically
correct discussion here, but it is fun to contrast the tone
of this part of the play's theme vs. today's tone.
A side note--I was cleaning out some books to take to a
used bookstore when I ran across a copy of Medea that
had been adapted by Robinson Jeffers in the mid-1940's
specifically for Judith Anderson. I'm about halfway
through and it is interesting to see what he added to
the play. For the most part it follows faithfully, but there
are a few additions.
Two points that jumped out at me in this version: (1)
the imagery is much stronger in Jeffers. Not surprisingly,
the descriptions of the ocean and coastline 'feel' just
like the Big Sur coastline (a constant image/description
in much of his poetry). But he also adds a lot of other
descriptive imagery and increases the violent feel of the
play. (2) He also adds to the Greek vs. barbarian them
in the play, using stronger language and additional lines
regarding this. I'll finish it this weekend and see where
else it differs. A very interesting comparison!
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (68 of 69),
Read 16 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Chrees . condrieu@yahoo.com
Date:
Sunday, September 23, 2001 04:29 PM
I finished Robinson Jeffers' adaptation of Medea and I
*highly* recommend it! While true to the original, there
is a lot of additional scenes that help flesh out the
characters. It would take as long as the play is to go
into the differences, but I'll point out a few things I
enjoyed.
In the original, you got the feeling that Medea's mind
changed about killing her children after Aegeus offered
Athens as a safe haven. In Jeffers, the turning point is
about the same time but for different reasons:
Meadea--You have never had a child?
Aegeus--No. And it is bitterness.
M--But when misfortune comes it is bitter to have
children, and watch their starlike faces grow dim to
endure it.
A--When death comes, Medea, it is, for a childless man,
utter despair, darkness, extinction. One's children are
the life after death.
M (excited)--Do you feel it so? Then--if you had a
dog-eyed enemy and needed absolute
vengeance--you'd kill the man's children first? Unchild
him, ha? And then unlife him.
There are several powerful additions like the above.
Jason has more scenes with Medea (or at least longer
scenes) and he comes off as a much rounder character.
One change at the end makes for easier staging:
instead of her chariot being pulled by dragons, she has
two fire dragons beside her (symbolized by lamps) that
protect her in the final dialogue with Jason.
And as I've said before, the imagery Jeffers uses (many
the same as his other poetry, especially the rugged
coastline and bird & eagle imagery) makes this a delight
to read.
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (69 of 69),
Read 16 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Sunday, September 23, 2001 05:53 PM
Do you know if this was produced as a TV play with
Anderson? I have a feeling I saw it back in the days of
black & white.
Ruth
"Citizen!
Consider my traveling expenses: Poetry—all of it—is a trip
into the unknown. " Vladimir Mayakovksy
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (70 of 72),
Read 20 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Chrees . condrieu@yahoo.com
Date:
Tuesday, September 25, 2001 11:00 PM
I had a few minutes today to do a little investigating and
this is what I found. Keep in mind I'm going by what
these websites are telling me, so I can't comment on the
veracity of what I'm posting here. (Hey, this is cool... give
enough disclaimers and I can say whatever I want to!)
There was a TV version of Medea broadcast in 1959,
using the Jeffers' adaptation with Judith Anderson in the
title role. I even found where this is available on VHS if
you so wish, but the quality is that of the original
broadcast.
But here's the fun part! There was a 1982 version on TV
as well, also based on Jeffers' adaptation and Anderson
played the nurse!
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (71 of 72),
Read 21 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Tuesday, September 25, 2001 11:23 PM
Hey thanks, Chrees. I have no doubt it was the 1952
production I saw. I'd forgotten all about it until you
posted on it.
Ruth
"Citizen!
Consider my traveling expenses: Poetry—all of it—is a trip
into the unknown. " Vladimir Mayakovksy
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (72 of 72),
Read 8 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ann Davey davey@tconl.com
Date:
Friday, September 28, 2001 11:16 PM
Chrees and Ruth,
I just finished watching a library copy of a video of a
1959 performance of Judith Anderson in MEDEA. Chrees,
I believe this is the script you were reading. It was
originally performed in 1947. Apparently, Anderson won
all kinds of accolades for this role.
The performance was interesting but Anderson really laid
everything (including some bad makeup) on very thick.
This looked like a filmed play. I think it was probably
shown on TV. Anderson was principally a stage actress
and that might explain in part some of the exaggerated
gestures and facial expressions. Most of the time she
seemed semi- or fully hysterical and she had a tendency
to roll her eyes. The other actors, including a beautiful
and impressive Colleen Dewhurst, seemed much more
natural.Given the story, it would, of course,be very
difficult to play Medea in any kind of subdued way, so my
criticism of Anderson may not be entirely fair.
According to the Internet Movie Data Base, Anderson
was born in 1897, which would have made her 62 years
old in 1959. She was way too old to play Medea and she
looked it. It was hard to believe that Jason could ever
have been in love with her.
The script emphasized the barbarian theme, as you
already pointed out Chrees, and it also made it very
clear that Medea killed her children because she felt it
would be the most painful way of getting back at Jason.
She kept asking Jason to assure her how much he loved
those children.
Anderson also played the role of Mrs. Danvers in the
original REBECCA movie, one of my old favorites. I
thought she was very good in that.
Ann
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (73 of 74),
Read 62 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ernie Belden drernest@pacbell.net
Date:
Saturday, October 06, 2001 11:55 PM
My first impression reading Medea was the Euripides had
a fine understanding of people and human nature. He
not only presents the drama, the action, but also shows
what's going on inside the individual their motivation.
The emphasis is Medea's rage which she justifies. She is
incapable to live with the loss of her husband to a
younger (perhaps better looking) woman and felt that
any action, no matter how deadly is justified (even if it
involves the life of her own children). She could not to
accept "defeat" on the part of another young woman. It
is interesting to observe how she disguises her
murderous anger to carry out her plans i.e.to kill her
children by means of the sword and see them suffer. It is
difficult to understand such action at this day and age.
As an ex-psychologist I was doubly interested as I had
seen a few mother and one man who had killed their
children. The women that I saw seemed depressed and
very down and were diagnosed as suffering from a post
partum psychosis - depression. The youngish man killed
the children to get even with his wife who had left him.
He seemed to be a psychopath and lacked all feeling for
his children.
I just recently read Sarah Blaffer Hrdy's Mother Nature, a
History of Mothers, Infants, and Natural Selection,
published 1999. It is a superb review of research on this
subject and deals at length with infanticide. It is a
gruesome topic and some of it may have some bearing
on the play. Infanticide in one form or another was far
from a rare occurance in man's not too distant past. I
don't recall that she dealt with the matter of revenge as
a prominent cause. She deals with the biological survival
and selection mechanism in humans and chimps. (Still
had a hard time reading those chapters). What
pathological mother nature comes up with!
Ernie
Topic:
September Discussion: Medea by Euripides (74 of 74),
Read 128 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ann Davey davey@tconl.com
Date:
Wednesday, October 10, 2001 02:52 PM
Ernie,
That sounds like an interesting book, but I can
understand why reading it was difficult.
Most of the cases we read about do seem to involve
women who suffer from postpartum depression, don't
they? However, there was a case awhile back where a
Mom drowned her two sons in a car and then blamed a
car jacking. I think she viewed them as an encumbrance
to an affair she was having. People like her and the
father you mentioned must completely lack empathy for
anyone. If you can't feel it for your children, it's difficult to
imagine you could feel it for anyone else.
When I lived in Japan I would sometimes hear about
parents who committed suicide and killed their children at
the same time. The reasoning was that it was cruel to
leave the children behind.
Ann
Ann
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