At their center is Alice Mellings, who, though not the leader, is nevertheless the engine of the group. A brilliant organizer, Alice (in her mid-thirties) knows how to cope with almost anything, except the vacuum of her own life. And so we find her - in this latest of the countless squatters' communes she's inhabited during the past fifteen years - once again taking charge, taking care, being practical. Alice: fixing, replacing, conniving, convincing, cooking. Alice: always there, always reliable, giving her time and effort to running the house so that the others are free to take part in the demonstrations that are the motivating force of their lives. Alice: making herself indispensable - and invisible, earning a precious sense of belonging by denying her own sense of self.

In The Good Terrorist Doris Lessing has given us not only an extraordinarily vivid picture of communal life and lives (the leader, who guards his lair with oppressive jealousy; the imposing female "lieutenant," whose strength goes far beyond those she serves; the madwoman, whose political actions may be the only vent for her severe emotional turmoil; the hangers-on, the intruders, the abusers, the abused), but also a profoundly intuited and timely portrait of the kind of personalities - who they are, how they function, what makes them tick - that can be drawn to this dangerous and frightening way of life."

 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (1 of 9), Read 29 times 
         
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Jane Niemeier jniemeie@hotmail.com 
 Date: 
      Saturday, June 15, 2002 02:46 PM 


This was an interesting book. Lessing made her main
characters difficult to like, I thought. By the middle of the
novel, I was ready to give Alice a kick in the butt. 
What do you think of Alice? Was she really a terrorist or
just a spoiled brat as her mother said? And Jasper, Alice's
so-called boyfriend, was a complete parasite. My
Protestant work ethic kept getting in the way during this
novel. I kept thinking that the average working man that
they want to help is paying for them to sit around and plan
terrorist acts.

***************Spoiler*******************

What was the purpose of the explosion at the end? I
found it interesting that Alice's group did not claim
responsibility and did not tell the media why they set off
the explosion.


Jane

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (2 of 9), Read 31 times 
         
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net 
 Date: 
      Saturday, June 15, 2002 03:33 PM 


Ack, I forgot all about this one. Off to the library I go.

Ruth 

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (3 of 9), Read 21 times 
         
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net 
 Date: 
      Sunday, June 16, 2002 11:58 AM 


Thanks for starting the thread, Jane. I'm having the same
kind of reaction to the characters as you -- sometimes I
want to throw the book across the floor (I haven't finished
yet, so I may still get the opportunity). When Jasper took
that money from Alice when she was in kind of a swoon
(which I didn't get) I just wanted to slap her, and I wanted
to throttle him. Even though I had no sympathy for her at
the start, I do want her to find a way to be happy,
although, that seems unlikely. Her obsession with the
house is the most interesting thing in the book to me. I
think she's trying to recreate her own childhood -- her own
home, even though she seems to rejects all the social
mechanisms that allowed her to have that childhood. I
don't understand why she hates her father so much
(because he left her mother?) What a bundle of
contradictions she is. A real case of arrested development.

Sherry

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (4 of 9), Read 24 times 
         
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net 
 Date: 
      Sunday, June 16, 2002 12:33 PM 


I managed to get about 3/4 of the way thru this after I
picked it up at the library yesterday.

Alice is a basket case. Needier than any of the "needy"
people she feels compelled to help. Not to mention those
blackout rages. 

I thought this was going to turn out to be a study of a
group of people and how each got to this turn in life. But
now I think no, it's trying to let us see one twisted life in
depth.

Anybody think it's succeeding in that goal?

Ruth

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (5 of 9), Read 27 times 
         
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net 
 Date: 
      Sunday, June 16, 2002 12:49 PM 


"Arrested development" is exactly right. I was surprised
when I read that she was close to 40 years old. Up until
then I saw her as no more than 16. Especially, when she
through the rock through the window of her father's
house. What a horrible brat! 

Dean
All roads lead to roam.

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (6 of 9), Read 22 times 
         
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net 
 Date: 
      Sunday, June 16, 2002 02:37 PM 


Ruth, I thought that Lessing did a good job of looking into
the emotional state ("needy" expresses it well) and the
rationalizations which went on in Alice's mind. 

She has a view of life which is restricted by her emotions.
This leads her to the delusion that a political system can
change human nature.

Dean
All roads lead to roam.

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (7 of 9), Read 14 times 
         
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Jane Niemeier jniemeie@hotmail.com 
 Date: 
      Sunday, June 16, 2002 09:09 PM 


Dean,
You mentioned the scene where Alice threw the rock
through her father's window. Lessing made that scene
particularly poignant, because the next part of the book
dealt with the young woman who was not allowed to move
into the house. She had come to throw a rock through the
window of the group home. Alice's first thought is, "How
pathetic!." She doesn't make the connection that her act
was even more pathetic. Alice reminds me of a friend's little
brothers. My friend and I were in our twenties and her
brothers were 11 and 12. She had to explain to them that
just because you go to the bank and cash a check didn't
mean that they could do that. They hadn't made the
connection that my friend had put the money in the bank,
so she had the right to withdraw it. The boys thought that
anyone could go to the bank and get money. Such a deal!
Jane

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (8 of 9), Read 10 times 
         
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net 
 Date: 
      Monday, June 17, 2002 04:55 AM 


Excellent point, Jane. It was that inability to make
connections that made Alice herself pathetic.

Dean
All roads lead to roam.


 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (9 of 9), Read 7 times 
         
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com 
 Date: 
      Monday, June 17, 2002 09:08 AM 


This discussion is driving my crazy because I haven't been
able to get the book yet! It's due to be returned to my
branch of the library today, and I'm real antsy to start it.
Sounds like a good 'un!

Beej

 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (10 of 17), Read 20
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Ee Lin Kuan eelin@althor.fsnet.co.uk 
 Date: 
      Tuesday, June 18, 2002 06:05 PM 


Hi everyone,

I too thought it was an interesting book. Normally, I doubt if
the premise of the book would have inspired me to pick it
up, but I found that a few pages in, I was drawn by the
characters. They seemed very real. 

The characters seemed to be drifters with no purpose
except to protest against something. Sometimes they didn't
even seem to believe in the causes they were protesting
against. They just went whenever and wherever there
happened to be a protest. They seemed to be parroting
whatever was considered to be fashionable in their circles.
And despite all their protests about governments and
fascism and such, they had no qualms about taking money
and going to cafes and enjoying themselves.

Despite all of Alice's protestations about bourgeois comforts,
she seemed to desire them very much as she was the one
who managed to bring some comfort back to the squat they
were living in. 

I enjoyed Alice's thoughts about Mary and Reggie and all
her little statements about the typical middle-class couple,
such as accumulating things and wealth, their safe opinions
on what to protest about etc. They seemed fairly on-point. 

***************Spoiler*******************

I was surprised at how much I enjoyed the book and I really
did want to finish it. I didn't quite understand about the
explosion at the end. Did they all suddenly realise the
enormity of the consequences and then quickly run away so
they could forget about it? Did Alice also do the same thing,
suppress all memory of incidents that make her
uncomfortable?

Ee Lin

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (11 of 17), Read 19
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net 
 Date: 
      Tuesday, June 18, 2002 06:40 PM 


Anybody still reading? Do we still need SPOILERS?
....
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Sometime in the middle of the book I began to suspect Alice
was suppressing certain unpleasant incidences, but then
almost at the end when she was talking to her mother
about when/why her mother sold the house, it became
obvious.

I gathered that, oh what was her name, the one who kept
having the screaming meemies? Fiona? Anyway, I think she
used the bomb as a method of finally committing suicide.
She intentionally set it to go off early. And she didn't care if
she killed any of the others with her. 

As for the scattering, hadn't they agreed that they all would
go their separate ways as soon as the bombing was over?
In order to escape detection.

What about the guy at the end. The one Alice is going to
have lunch with. I suspect he's the Long Arm of the Law.

As usual, everyone's left Alice to pick up after them. And as
usual, Alice has arranged it so she has to.

Ruth 

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (12 of 17), Read 20
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net 
 Date: 
      Wednesday, June 19, 2002 09:56 AM 


I agree, Ruth. Faye used the car-bomb as a fool-proof
suicide. It seemed a little unrealistic that Jasper only got
facial cuts, while people on the street were killed. He was
standing right by the door. But maybe that is wishful
thinking. I'm sure Peter Cecil (the man who is coming to
lunch) is the law. The last sentence of the book is telling:
"Smiling gently, a mug of very strong sweet tea in her hand,
looking this morning like a nine-year-old girl who has had,
perhaps, a bad dream, the poor baby sat waiting for it to be
time to go out and meet the professionals."


Sherry

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (13 of 17), Read 23
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Tonya Presley t-pr@attbi.com 
 Date: 
      Wednesday, June 19, 2002 11:29 AM 


I've just barely started this book, although it was my
nomination and I was tickled pink when it won. But I was
anxious to finish one I'd started in Tennessee last week
before The Good Terrorist, but have been much to busy and
finally set it aside. It must be 4 or 5 years since I read TGT,
but Alice really stayed with me, and every time I noticed it
on the shelf there was that urge to re-read it.

Whenever an author calls a character "Alice", my guard is up
that we'll fall through the rabbit hole sooner or later.

As much as Alice, it was the writing style that kept me
riveted, it seemed to me Lessing used what could have
been an exhausting number of details - every little detail
possible - but for some reason it wasn't exhausting, it
created a real sense of the place and people, the tensions
they lived with and the frustrations Alice ignored.

I can remember being surprised by the bombing at the end,
but don't remember Alice going to meet the law. I've really
got to read this fast now!

Tonya

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (14 of 17), Read 26
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net 
 Date: 
      Wednesday, June 19, 2002 11:40 AM 


The writing is so smooth that this one is an easy one to sail
thru, Tonya. But that said, while it is smooth and competent
and effective, it lacks those wonderful little moments when
you realize something has been said in a way so perfect
that it takes your breath away.

Ruth 

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (15 of 17), Read 15
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Jane Niemeier jniemeie@hotmail.com 
 Date: 
      Wednesday, June 19, 2002 10:00 PM 


Ruth,
That is a good point about the writing. It was smooth but
not special.
Jane

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (16 of 17), Read 11
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Tonya Presley t-pr@attbi.com 
 Date: 
      Thursday, June 20, 2002 01:06 PM 


I agree, she doesn't do that. Or at least not in this book.

This is really a slow reading period for me, I'm in the midst of
other real world projects that are busy, busy, busy (must
have had 20 phone calls yesterday, AAARGH!). I've still
barely cracked this book and it is driving me NUTS!

Tonya


 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (17 of 17), Read 13
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net 
 Date: 
      Thursday, June 20, 2002 01:12 PM 


I did find that this was one of those books that was hard to
put down. I pretty much took it in a 2 day gulp.

And not once did I stop to think, "This writing's clumsy," or "I
could write a better scene than that," or "phony dialogue."

I'd say it's the kind of writing that makes writing disappear.

Ruth 

 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (18 of 30), Read 38
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com 
 Date: 
      Friday, June 21, 2002 10:48 PM 


At first, I thought Alice was nothing more than a spoiled
brat, too. But then I started having all these
questions..like, why the complete aversion to sex? Was it
because both her parents had affairs, or that her father
left her mother for a younger woman? And, why call
yourself a terrorist, when the highlight of your terrorist
career is writing graffiti on some wall and running from the
police? (As Alice, herself, was quick to note, she really had
little or nothing to do with the bombing.) Seems to me the
only people Alice terrorized were her parents.

The parties her mother gave seemed to have some tie to
Alice's behavior as well as this house #43. Her mother
was the queen of organizing these parties, and Alice felt
insignificant and on the outside of the family when these
parties were going on. and they went on ALOT. (Alice
found safety only by doing things in the kitchen the
morning after these parties.)

There's also something about Alice being booted out of
her bedroom and sleeping on the floor next to her parents
bed after these parties, where she felt very alone, very
abandoned and disconnected.

At house #43, Alice was the organizer and at the crux of
her newly found 'family.' yet, just when Alice has formed a
sort of connection with her mother by being the 'chief
organizer' of this house, she finds her mother has moved
to a lowly flat.

I really think there's a lot more going on with Alice besides
her 'brattiness.' I think she's a very, very complicated
character.


Beej

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (19 of 30), Read 34
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net 
 Date: 
      Saturday, June 22, 2002 12:17 AM 


I think she's a psychological basket case who was no
more attracted to the terrorist causes than she was an
effective terrorist. She wanted people to need her. She
hooked up with whathisface because she knew that
protected her from sex. She wanted to give her parents
pain. And a few more little issues like that.

Ruth 

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (20 of 30), Read 35
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Lynn Isvik washualum@yahoo.com 
 Date: 
      Saturday, June 22, 2002 04:59 AM 


There were several things, including the aversion to sex,
that suggested to me that Alice was the victim of sexual
abuse as a child. She was very good at conveniently
forgetting (in fact, totally blocking out) things from her
past. Do you think that could have been part of the source
of her anger at her father?

Lynn

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (21 of 30), Read 39
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com 
 Date: 
      Saturday, June 22, 2002 10:07 AM 


Lynn, I wondered if she had been sexually abused as a
child by her father, too. But, my guess is that she hated
her dad because he supplied to his new family, the sort of
family life she had desired as a child. 

I vaguely remember something about Alice, as a child,
repeatedly asking her mother if she was a good girl. I
think Alice tried very hard to have her goodness
validated..hence, the title of the book. I think everything
she did was somehow tied in with the feelings of
alienation she felt from her parents. This might also be at
the root to her aversion to sex. With the possible
witnessing of her parent's sexual encounters after these
parties, it only validated her feelings of being on the
outside.

I cannot understand why her mother forfeited her chance
(and cash) to turn the upstairs of her home into a rental
unit, in order to take in Alice and Jasper. Alice's dad
repeatedly told Dorothy to kick them out..they were, after
all, no longer children..and she refused. i don't think this
was a case of a mother's desire to help her child. I think
there was an ulterior, selfish motive. 

Beej

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (22 of 30), Read 31
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net 
 Date: 
      Saturday, June 22, 2002 12:01 PM 


Maybe the mother is where Alice got some of her need to
make people a home. Maybe the mother HAD to do it, like
Alice HAD to fix up the old house.

Ruth 

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (23 of 30), Read 36
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com 
 Date: 
      Saturday, June 22, 2002 12:03 PM 


And, maybe in Alice's mind, reconstructing this house was
a way to reconstruct the home of her childhood.
this all reminds me of Steinbeck's theory in EofE, that a
great deal of our happiness in life, or lack thereof, is
based on how we view our early childhood relationships
with our parents. Do you think Alice was jealous of her
mother's relationship with her father? Or, jealous of all the
care Dorothy put into planning these extravagant parties
while pushing Alice into the background? And, didn't the
rest of the clan, in house #43, also push Alice into the
background while they planned their terrorist activities? 
Beej

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (24 of 30), Read 24
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Barbara Moors bar647@aol.com 
 Date: 
      Tuesday, June 25, 2002 09:15 AM 


The last Lessing that I read was The Golden Notebook in
the 70's. Either she changed a lot between the writing of
these two or I changed a lot between the readings...or
both? The viewpoint seems to be much more of an
exterior one.

I've been really interested in your discussion of Alice's
motivations. Her childhood certainly seems to be the key
and Lessing seems to be making it very much a puzzle,
giving us little bits of information to put together. It's
limited by Alice's own skewed and patchy memories. Her
seemingly legendary ability to save squats and make
them comfortable certainly seems to come from her own
needs to recreate the comfort of her childhood home. I
was interested too by her comrades' reaction. At first,
they view it all with distaste, evidence of her need for
bourgeois comfort. Then, in spite of themselves, they
enjoy it enormously. If I remember correctly, the
outstanding comments from the visitors to the Congress
involved the comfort of the house. Jocelin seems to be the
only one who is indifferent to them. And, she is the most
focused and scariest one of the group, I think.

One of the most interesting things to me about the book
was its description of the political group. In the late 60's
and 70's, I was involved with a number of fairly leftist
groups (though nothing to the extent of this one) and
knew people who were involved in far more radical
groups. All of them eventually fell into stratifications much
like Lessing has portrayed here. If individuals wanted to
discuss ideas that challenged the group's beliefs, they
were usually treated with disdain, even hissed and booed
in large groups. I came to feel that they were being just
as limiting as the groups they were rejecting. And, Lessing
has absolutely nailed that environment.

Really interesting book, Tonya. It's not one that I
burrowed down into comfortably, but Lessing certainly has
me thinking and I'm glad I read it.

Barb 

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (25 of 30), Read 23
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net 
 Date: 
      Tuesday, June 25, 2002 11:35 AM 


Good comments, Barb. I think it was interesting that Alice
was reared in a background of leftist thinkers. It wasn't
like she just up and rebelled completely. It almost seemed
like she was trying to carry on and further some hidden
tradition for herself. But every time she corresponded with
either of her parents it was: F*** this, or f*** that. Not
exactly the kind of speech pattern that is likely to
engender a positive response. Was she trying to prove
that she was a better socialist than they were? Was she
trying to prove that they had reneged on some promise
she thought they had given her? I think her father's
remarriage angered her for a number of reasons. How
could he do this to Mother? And: How could he do this to
ME? He basically erased her status in the family by having
much younger children. Major betrayal.


Sherry

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (26 of 30), Read 23
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net 
 Date: 
      Tuesday, June 25, 2002 11:57 AM 


On a couple of occasions, Alice refers to herself as her
mother's daughter, as if trying to be good in her mother's
eyes. Yet, she terrorized her mother. She did the same to
her father but there was no mention of Alice trying to
measure up to any standard of his. To her mother, Alice
was both good and a terrorist.

I got the impression that Alice had bullied her mother into
boarding her and Jasper. Yet, Alice seemed unable to
accept that she was responsible for her mom losing her
house. Alice herself seems oblivious to the pattern which
she is playing out with her parents, especially her mom. 

Alice has made contacts which will force her to view her
behaviour from outside this pattern: the people whose
guns she threw away and a man who may be a police
detective. Whoever gets to her first, I feel that Alice's
world is about to be shattered. 

Dean
All roads lead to roam.

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (27 of 30), Read 22
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net 
 Date: 
      Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:20 PM 


Barb, I, too, hadn't read a Lessing for years and years
and years. You're right. Either she's changed, or we have.
I don't remember her other books as being nearly so
psychologically oriented. 

Ruth 

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (28 of 30), Read 26
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Pres Lancaster plancast@neteze.com 
 Date: 
      Tuesday, June 25, 2002 01:26 PM 


"From the perspective of middle age, she examines a few
of her favorite books after the passage of 20 or 30 years
and reflects on how her reactions to them have changed."

From a review of Wendy Lesser's NOTHING REMAINS THE
SAME: READING AND REMEMBRANCE.

The several editorial reviews at Amazon are very mixed. It
is on my TBR list be reason of a review in the NYT, but I
have my doubts now.

Anyhow, you've got an interesting subject going -
rereading at a distance.

As I've remarked before, I once collected books on the
principle that I would only put out money for books I
wanted to reread; then it was for books I wanted to read
in my old age; now it's for books I've got to have NOW.
The latest was Epstein's SNOBBERY which I have yet to
get into - sheer perversity (which goes well satin
sneakiness).

pres

 
 

 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (29 of 30), Read 16
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Barbara Moors bar647@aol.com 
 Date: 
      Tuesday, June 25, 2002 04:06 PM 


Good points about her politics not being the usual
rebellion, Sherry. At times, she seemed to be daring her
parents to live up to the philosophies that they had
always professed to believe. It amazed me that she was
so incredibly rude when she asked them for something.
Do you remember the note to her father, asking him to
give Jim a job? And, didn't you know what was going to
happen to Jim when she took that money from her father?
I was just waiting for the other shoe to fall. Her treatment
of Jim prior to that was one of the few things I liked about
her.

Ruth and Pres, I'd love to go back and check my viewpoint
on a number of books if I just didn't have this list that I
haven't read yet.

Barb


 Topic: 
      The Good Terrorist by Doris Lessing (30 of 30), Read 15
      times  
 Conf: 
      Reading List 
 From: 
      Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net 
 Date: 
      Tuesday, June 25, 2002 04:13 PM 


Yes, Barb, I knew Jim would be blamed. She obviously
didn't have that ability that allows a person to connect dot
"a" to dot "b". She was always being surprised at the
results of her actions, whereas "we" all knew what was
going to happen, and were groaning in exasperation for
her. Yet I think her portrayal is very realistic. I know
people who seem to be missing the connect-the-dot gene.
They'll run up their credit card and act amazed that the
folks at CitiBank want their money. 

Sherry