Ingram:
This sprawling and often brutal novel, set in the rich farmlands of California's Salinas Valley, follows the intertwined destinies of two families--the Trasks and the Hamiltons--whose generations helplessly reenact the fall of Adam and Eve and the poisonous rivalry of Cain and Abel. "A strange and original work of art."--New York Times Book Review.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (1 of 14), Read 51 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Friday, May 24, 2002 08:39 AM
PASCAL COVICI
Dear Pat,
You came upon me carving some kind of little figure out of
wood and you said, "Why don't you make something for me?"
I asked you what you wanted, and you said, "A box."
"What for?"
"To put things in."
"What things?"
"Whatever you have," you said.
Well, here's your box. Nearly everything I have is in it, and it is
not full. Pain and excitement are in it, and feeling good or bad
and evil thoughts and good thoughts--the pleasure of design
and some despair and the indescribable joy of creation.
And on top of these are all the gratitude and love I have for
you.
And still the box is not full.
JOHN
This is the dedication of East of Eden, and is just a taste of the
beauty within this book. A modern version of Cain and Abel,
and my favorite Steinbeck novel, I'm re-reading it for the third
time. I thought I'd ask if anyone would like to join me. It's such
a lush, gorgeous novel, that I really think a discussion would be
a lot of fun.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (2 of 14), Read 46 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Friday, May 24, 2002 11:10 AM
I failed to locate my copy, so I picked up another at the library
yesterday. It's by Vantage, with a long, very interesting preface
which I'm still reading. Do you have this preface, Beej?
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (3 of 14), Read 48 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Friday, May 24, 2002 11:56 AM
Ruth, I have the Penguin Books edition, which has a great
introduction.
Was the preface in your edition written by David Wyatt?
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (4 of 14), Read 42 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Friday, May 24, 2002 05:25 PM
That's the guy. Very interesting intro, isn't it?
So this is your favorite Steinbeck? I have to profess an
inordinate fondness for Cannery Row. One of the funniest books
I've ever read.
I have Steinbeck's collected letters. I should take a peek at the
period during which he wrote EofE.
But if I don't go to the market now, I will miss the nice young
lady who hands out the snacks in Trader Joe's. The sacrifices
we shoppers have to make...
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (5 of 14), Read 38 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Friday, May 24, 2002 11:43 PM
I just finished the beautiful first chapter. It's a wonderful
description of the California landscape, right up to the wild
fennel. I miss wild fennel. It grows in and around Los Angeles,
but it's too hot for it here inland.
Steinbeck's writing is so graceful, it's a joy to read.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (6 of 14), Read 39 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Saturday, May 25, 2002 12:44 PM
Oh, what a book, what a book! I glanced through Wyatt's intro,
Ruth, but will wait until I've finished before reading it.
How far are you? I don't want to say much more until I know
I'm not spoiling anything for you, but, wow! what a relationship
between Adam and Cyrus! And Adam and Charles.
I had forgotten we get so much of Adam's childhood history. It'll
be interesting to see how that plays into his relationships with
his own sons.
Jeez, I love this book!
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (7 of 14), Read 34 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Saturday, May 25, 2002 01:32 PM
Don't worry about spoilers for me, Beej. I've read this at least
twice before. I've forgotten the plot, but that doesn't matter. I
don't mind being reminded. There are only a few books that are
so plot-driven that I wouldn't want to know ahead of time. Is
anyone else reading this with us?
I'm reading Adam's childhood now.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (8 of 14), Read 26 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 12:29 AM
I'm so glad you talked me into this, Beej. I haven't read
Steinbeck in so long, and now I remember all the reasons I was
crazy about his writing.
So graceful it seems effortless. A gift for the apt and marvellous
word or phrase. Not unlike Updike's gifts in these departments,
but with a different sensibility.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (9 of 14), Read 33 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 09:18 AM
Ruth, I think the central character, around whom the entire
book revolves, is Cathy. Is she Eve? Or is she Evil?
We have Adam, who really does not acknowledge evil, but who
is determined to create an Eden for his Eve. Cathy forces Adam
to acknowledge evil. She is the destroyer of life. When Samuel
returns from the Trask's farm after finally meeting Cathy, is
asked by his wife, Lisa, what Cathy held in her hands, how she
kept her hands occupied. Lisa wants to know if she was knitting
or darning as a way to learn more about Cathy's wifely
interests. As we know Cathy had a knitting needle in her hands
only once, and that was to use it as a tool to abort. I think
there's tremendous symbolism in that.
Steinbeck contrasts Lisa, a mother of nine, a creator of life, with
Cathy, who does not even have the ability to produce milk for
her newborns, whose own physical being is incapable of
nurturing life. Remember when Cathy hit puberty and suddenly
her nipples turned inward? From the onset of her womanhood,
her body began a denial of her ability to nurture life.
What do you think Steinbeck is saying about the inherent nature
of women with this novel?
Steinbeck is an author whose every sentence, no matter how
short, has meaning. Absolutely nothing can be skimmed over.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (10 of 14), Read 22 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 10:15 AM
In the Bible, it says that east of Eden, the garden of Eden, is the
land of Nod, the place to which Cain was banished after he had
murdered his brother Abel. Each time I've read this book, I've
wondered about that. We think of the land of Nod as sleep, but
it was more than that. It was a place of exile for Cain, after he
committed an act of human destruction. The implications of
that, and how it relates to these characters in EofE has always
intrigued me.
Adam Trask set out to create Eden, and instead, he created
Nod.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (11 of 14), Read 23 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 10:53 AM
I read this a few years ago and enjoyed it immensely as I am
enjoying this discussion. You make some excellent points, Beej.
This idea of starting with Eden and ending with Nod has
intrigued me also. In the Bible we are told that Adam and Eve
must not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil but
the very command not to eat contains within itself the
knowledge of good and evil, that is, to eat of the tree is evil not
to eat of it is good. From the moment that God gave the
command, Adam and Eve were on the road to Nod.
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (12 of 14), Read 24 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 11:03 AM
Thanks, Dean. And if we continue to compare EofE to the book
of Genesis, can we not say Cyrus was the symbolic God to this
family, the one who first acknowledges the existence of evil to
Adam? Cyrus tells Adam he is crueler to him than he is to
Charles because he loves Adam more. This is all tied in
somehow with God's deepest love for humankind and an
intermingling of that love with suffering. I haven't got
Steinbeck's meaning with this sorted out in my head yet, but
I'm working on it, and believe it's all very relevant to the rest of
the novel.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (13 of 14), Read 12 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 12:26 PM
Yes, Cyrus is reminiscent of the Old Testament God but this
novel has brought me see this God as more than the giver of
tough love to his chosen ones.
Steinbeck's beautiful description of the valley and the fate of its
inhabitants has brought me to see the Old Testament God as
the giver of inequity. God created the valley but some parts are
fertile other parts are not; some parts are arid other parts are
not. So, I came to see the story of Cain and Able as a moral
about how to deal with inequity. It is inevitable that God will
favour the offerings of some over the offerings of others. The
story advises us not to be angry about this.
Genesis 4:5-7
...but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So
Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.
Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your
face downcast?
If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do
not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to
have you, but you must master it."
I felt that Steinbeck illustrated this by showing how Samuel
acted and made his way in life despite having to farm an arid
patch of the valley.
By the way, "Nod" means "wandering."
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (14 of 14), Read 6 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 01:01 PM
Part of the trouble with Steinbeck's portrayal of Cathy, and of
Liza, too, I'd say, is his difficulty with women in general. Can
either of you think of a woman in any of Steinbeck's books that
has the depth of characterization that the men do.
The other trouble is that any time an author attempts a parable,
or the rewriting of an ancient parable, characterization suffers.
Parables are morality plays. Characters stand for different
moral values. Damned hard to write a character with a great
deal of depth under that premise.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (15 of 16), Read 3 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 01:36 PM
Dean, how apropos that Nod means wandering. These people
wandered, not only physically, but emotionally, as well. Perhaps
their Nod existed, too, in their hearts. No matter how deeply
they desired Eden, they seemed to always attain that place just
outside of Eden.
Ruth, I'm not there yet, but my recollection of Abra is that she
had this sort of depth of characterization.
And, I do think Cathy's character has a lot of depth, but I think
we hesitate to look her smack in the face.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (16 of 16), Read 2 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 01:40 PM
I'm afraid if we looked her smack in the face, she'd just stare
back with those opaque eyes.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (17 of 26), Read 26 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 01:48 PM
Did you get to the part where Samuel remembers seeing eyes
like that when he was a child? God, that was chilling.
You know, I keep wondering how long they were married when
Cathy got pregnant. She had sex with Charles right before she
married Adam. Could the twins be Charles' children?
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (18 of 26), Read 23 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 02:55 PM
Hmm, that never crossed my mind, but it maybe could be.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (19 of 26), Read 21 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 04:58 PM
Ruth and Dean, There's something that bothers me, here. I
know the symbolism is deep, but I just can't tie this together.
Maybe y'all can help me.
When Cain was exiled to Nod, he was branded. He was his
brother's slayer. But, God marked him in order that he be
known by this mark and not harmed. It was meant as a badge
of protection.
Now, here's what I don't get; Charles and Cathy were both
'branded' by a scar on the forehead. What is Steinbeck saying
with that?
God, there's just so much to try and understand in this book.
We've yet to touch on Cain's most known words, and something
I feel is the axis on which this story rotates:
"Am I my brother's keeper?"
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (20 of 26), Read 17 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 06:37 PM
This book has fallen short for me on two occasions now. Those
being when Hamilton, Trask and Lee sit and discuss the
meaning of the Cain and Abel story.
I just don't think they're believable scenes. Lee and Hamilton
are way too wise to be real. Adam Trask has shown us no
philosophical tendencies up to now.
I hate it when the author uses his characters as if he were a
ventriloquist. Steinbeck should let the writing and the story
unfold to show his meaning, not lecture at us from the mouths
of his characters. After all, he's loaded this story with enough
symbolism to choke an ox.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (21 of 26), Read 17 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 08:26 PM
Part of me agrees with you, Ruth. That entire scene was
probably unnecessary. I disagree about Lee, tho. He was a well
educated man.
I wonder if that Biblical inclusion was a means of balancing
things within the novel that Steinbeck might have felt would
cause more stoic readers to be up in arms about. I doubt that's
the case, tho. Maybe Samuel was merely spouting what he
thought Liza wanted him to say.
Did you feel it was condescending on Steinbeck's part? I didn't
think it detracted a lot from the book, however.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (22 of 26), Read 12 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 08:54 PM
A well-educated man is not necessarily a wise one. But that's
not my quarrel with Steinbeck. I just think Lee is way too
perfect to be real. Again, that's what happens when you deal in
parables where everything stands for something.
No, those two scenes haven't ruined the book for me, but I
found them unneccessary and tedious.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (23 of 26), Read 17 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 09:06 PM
Yep. I can see your point. I didn't find them tedious but they
were probably unnecessary.
What is it with Adam? It almost seems as though being
physically attacked, first by Charles and then by Samuel, not to
mention being shot by Cathy, is just. It's as though he
associates pain with affection. And, again, I think this takes us
back to his relationship with his father, and Cyrus' claim that he
hurts Adam because he loves him the most.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (24 of 26), Read 13 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 10:45 PM
Interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (25 of 26), Read 15 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Monday, May 27, 2002 11:24 PM
Very good, Beej.
The marks on the foreheads of Charles and Cathy showed that
they had more in common with Cain than his first initial. They
are of a kind. I would say, however, that Cathy was devoured
early in her life by "the beast at the door," while Charley
struggled to master it all his life.
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (26 of 26), Read 8 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 08:33 AM
Of course, Dean! Thanks. I should have realized that. But,
instead, and even though he shares his initial with Abel, I was
thinking of Adam as an exiled Cain, because he was the one
who, at least on the surface, seemed to be in the land of Nod.
Cathy is about as an intriguing character as there is in all
literature. Steinbeck says, in the beginning of the chapter that
introduces us to Cathy:
'I believe there are monsters born in the world to human
parents. Some you can see, misshapen and horrible, with huge
heads or tiny bodies; some are born with no arms, no legs,
some with three arms, some with tails or mouths in odd places.
They are accidents and no one's fault, as used to be thought.
Once they were considered the visible punishments for
concealed sins.
And just as there are physical monsters, can there not be
mental or psychic monsters born? The face and body may be
perfect, but if a twisted gene or a malformed egg can produce
physical monsters, may not the same process produce a
malformed soul?'
And so, we have in Cathy, an inherently evil woman, born with
a malformed soul; a monster. And this is how she differs from
both Cain and Charles. Their malformed souls were a result of
sibling rivalry. It was a product of a desperate and painful belief
that their fathers, their God, in essence, loved a sibling more.
But, I tend to want to go on, and to compare Cathy less to Cain
and more to Eve. Was Eve (womankind) the possessor of an
inherent malformed soul? A monster who destroyed her Adam
(mankind) with the forbidden fruit? Did Cain inherit his ability to
destroy life from Eve?
(Steinbeck would not be the first author to include such an idea
in a novel. Faulkner did this, too, in 'The Sound and the Fury.'
the idea that women were inherently evil.)
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (27 of 31), Read 12 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 09:36 PM
Ruth, how far along are you? I've just finished the section
where Adam goes to see Cathy/Kate at the whore house.
So, she only had sex ONCE with her husband?? (God, she
is cruel!) And I don't think she's certain who the father of
those twins is, either.
What a nasty witch. First she tells Adam she slept with
Charles and then she tells him she could have fallen in
love with his brother. and then after THAT double
whammy, she tries to get Adam in the sack. (I really was
surprised he didn't take her up on it.)
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (28 of 31), Read 11 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:17 AM
I'm farther along, now. Just passed the place where Cal
finds out about Kate. The book is slowing down for me.
The more earnestly Steinbeck preaches, the more I drag
my heels.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (29 of 31), Read 31 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 07:52 AM
I know what you mean, but the book always picks up for
me with the introduction of Abra.
I can't read this novel without thinking of one particular
'badboy.' (and, I am such a sucker for these badboys..)
For me, he's what 'East of Eden' is ALL about.
James Dean as Cal Trask
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (30 of 31), Read 14 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 09:53 AM
Just for the heck of it, here's the original French movie
poster for EofE, where Dean got top billing, even over the
title:
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (31 of 31), Read 6 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 10:52 AM
If I ever saw this movie, I've forgotten it. HOW could I
have forgotten James Dean???
But I thought Cal was supposed to be dark, and Aron was
the blond.
So far I'm not charmed by Abra. Now that Hamilton is
dead, she and Lee seem to have cornered the market on
wisdom. It's a bit much for me.
Funny, I know I've read this book twice before, yet the
one I'm reading now sure is different from the ones I read
then. For one thing, I remembered most of the book as
being taken up with the Aron/Cal thing -- and now I find
it's just a small portion. Funny how books change. Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (32 of 41), Read 27 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 02:42 PM
How funny you say that, Ruth, because I always think of
East of Eden as Cal/Abra's story, too! In fact, I had
forgotten most of Adam and Charles' story!
Oh, I do so love this book. The writing is just such a
melody, and I'm in 7th heaven.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (33 of 41), Read 28 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 04:09 PM
Did I say Cal/Abra? I meant Cal/Aron. I'd forgotten Abra,
too.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (34 of 41), Read 25 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 08:32 PM
Finished this afternoon. I love the way Steinbeck handles
language, especially when he's not speechifying. It was
the speechifying that did me in on this go round. I kept
thinking that this would have been a deeper book, if
instead of trying to TELL us all this stuff, Steinbeck had
just shut up and let his story do its work, and let us do
our own work as readers.
I've been a major Steinbeck fan in the past, so it bothers
me that I didn't on the whole like this book as much as I
expected to.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (35 of 41), Read 27 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Thursday, May 30, 2002 01:43 AM
This is the only book of Steinbeck's which I have read and
then only once. I enjoyed its avuncular quality and I
accepted the speechifying as part of its charm but I think
that I might feel the same as you, Ruth, if I were to
re-read it. Does he do better in his other books?
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (36 of 41), Read 28 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Thursday, May 30, 2002 02:12 AM
I didn't mind the avuncular parts, I found them charming,
too. It was the heavy-duty philosphical discussions, and
the extended explanations of his characters' psyches that
got me down.
I've read almost all of Steinbeck, and I don't remember
this ventriloquistic philosophising or charater analysis as
being part of any others.
Tortilla Flats and Sweet Thursday are a couple of the
funniest books I've ever read. I love them.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (37 of 41), Read 22 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:46 AM
I see what you mean, Ruth.
I will make a point of reading those other Steinbeck titles.
"Cannery Row" was also mentioned earlier in this thread
as being humourous. I'm looking forward to reading all of
them.
I thought that the part in EoE when the old woman was
taken on a plane ride was very funny. It reminded me of
Garrison Keillor.
On a more serious note, I thought that the refusal by
Adam of Cal's money was interesting. Adam treated the
money as ill gotten. Steinbeck seems to be saying that
evil can arise from good intentions. The man who brought
Cal into the deal seems to me to be compared to the
serpent in the garden.
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (38 of 41), Read 18 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Thursday, May 30, 2002 11:31 AM
I never thought of it that way. It was a business deal like
many others. What the incident did to me was expose
Adam for an unfeeling, self-rightious jerk. He took the
money from his father, burying all idea that it might be
tainted. But he wouldn't take this gesture from his own
son. Honesty and uprightedness can be carried way too
far.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (39 of 41), Read 18 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Thursday, May 30, 2002 11:37 AM
Ruth, I am doing this from memory having read the book
about 4 years ago. Was the money from Adam's father
tainted?
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (40 of 41), Read 20 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Thursday, May 30, 2002 12:41 PM
After he died, everyone was surprised that he had
something like 100 thou packed away. No explanation as
to where it came from. Charles was convinced it was
ill-begotten. Adam was all for taking the bucks, and they
did.
I saw this, and its mirror in the Cal money, as two sides of
the same coin.
And at the end of the book Adam admits he's come to
believe his father was a thief. It goes a ways to explain
why he didn't take Cal's money.
Seems to me Adam's refusal to take the gift his son has
offered, is an example of how even the most honorable
motives, if held to rigidly, can be wrong. There could have
been justification in not taking the father's money, but
there's no justification for slapping your children in the
face with your "honor."
Ruth, in Redlands, where it's fixin' to hit 103 today
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (41 of 41), Read 1 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Friday, May 31, 2002 09:49 AM
Thanks, Ruth.
I think that Adam couldn't accept Cal's money because, he
felt that the farmer's had been treated unfairly. Wasn't
the the deal similar to insider trading?
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (42 of 57), Read 29 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Friday, May 31, 2002 11:31 AM
I realized that's how Cal felt, yet there are times when
people are more important than principles.
(Not sure if it was insider trading or just a commodities
deal like people do today when they buy up futures in pork
bellies.)
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (43 of 57), Read 32 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Friday, May 31, 2002 01:03 PM
My life just hasn't been my own to sit and read the way I'd
like lately, so I still have about 40 pages to read before I'm
finished.
Remember in the beginning of the book when Charles
gave Cyrus a beautiful and expensive knife and Adam
gave him a puppy? Cyrus put the knife away and never
used it. Charles was hurt and took it that Cyrus simply
didn't love him as much as he loved Adam. And because of
that, Charles beat the living daylights out of Adam.
This business about Cal giving Adam the money is history
repeating itself. Adam said he didn't want it because it
was money gained from feeding the soldiers Adam had
sent to the frontline. But if the truth be known, I think it
was because he simply loved Aron better, at least that's
how I think Cal thought of it. Cal didn't beat up his brother
physically; he beat him up emotionally in the way he knew
he could best destroy Aron..by taking him to meet Kate.
After Adam refused the money, Lee talks to Cal about
Adam:
' He couldn't help it. That's not his nature. He didn't have any
choice..'
And I thought to myself, "No! That's a bunch of bullcrap..",
because, remember...TIMSHEL..Thou mayest. Thou mayest
choose what is good over what isn't. Adam chose to do
what he knew was wrong. How could he help but know it
was wrong to refuse that gift? He had suffered retribution
from Charles because of a very similar poor choice made
by Cyrus.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (44 of 57), Read 23 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Friday, May 31, 2002 04:04 PM
Exactly, Beej.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (45 of 57), Read 22 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Friday, May 31, 2002 06:23 PM
I agree that to refuse the gift was hurtful especially as he
gave Cal no explanation, if I recall correctly. That bothered
me more than the refusal. If he had sat down with Cal and
explained to him his feelings about being on the draft
board and accepting the money, he and Cal could have
become closer.
If I were Adam, I would have accepted the money and I
would have used it to help the families of the those whom
I had sent to war.
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (46 of 57), Read 23 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Friday, May 31, 2002 07:32 PM
The perfect solution, Dean, which makes you a better man
than Adam.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (47 of 57), Read 24 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Friday, May 31, 2002 08:27 PM
Adam did give Cal a reason:
"I send boys out....I sign my name and they go out. And
some of them will die and some will lie helpless without arms
and legs. Not one will come back untorn. So, do you think I
could take a profit on that?"
But, I really think that's a big pile of bullcrap...The root of it
all, I really believe, is that Will Hamilton had advised Adam
to sell beans, Adam instead tried to ship lettuce to the
east and lost his shirt in the bargain. I think Adam wanted
to belittle Cal for making wiser business decisions than he
did.
Plain and simply, Cal showed his father up.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (48 of 57), Read 30 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Friday, May 31, 2002 08:32 PM
Oh, btw, Ruth..I gotta tell you..as much as I liked Lee (and
I really liked Lee a lot) and as much as I love this book
(and I really think this novel is magnificent) I began to get
a little tired of Lee's intellectualizing by the time I reached
the end of the book.
Of all the characters in here, I liked Cathy/Kate the best.
She was just so rotten, so vile, so narcissistic, so mean, so
greedy, such a monster, that I really enjoyed hating her!
Steinbeck kept describing Kathy's little fang teeth and
pointed little tongue..reminding me of the serpent in the
garden of Eden.
What did y'all think about Steinbeck's including himself, as
well as his sister, mother and dad, as characters? (I
should do a little researching and see if his mother was
really named Olive Hamilton.)
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (49 of 57), Read 21 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Friday, May 31, 2002 10:31 PM
I did and she was.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (50 of 57), Read 24 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Friday, May 31, 2002 10:36 PM
I wonder if the story of Samuel Hamilton and his family is
based on truth. Ruth, you wouldn't be willing to do an
entire genealogy check on the Hamilton side of the
Steinbeck family, would you? (just kidding..)
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (51 of 57), Read 29 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Friday, May 31, 2002 10:49 PM
i just did a quick check and, yep, Samuel Hamilton was,
indeed, John Steinbeck's grandaddy and, according to this
article:
'One of Steinbeck's main intentions in writing his globally
acclaimed book East Of Eden – the film version made a cult
figure of actor James Dean – was to tell the story of his
maternal family, the Hamiltons.'
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/fullfeatures.asp?DJID=4345
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (52 of 57), Read 25 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ernie Belden drernest@pacbell.net
Date:
Saturday, June 01, 2002 01:09 AM
I only got the Penguin edition with David Wyatt's
introduction the other day. I was just overcome by the
beauty of Steinbeck's writing. This book has a special
meaning for me. I spent about 4 years in the Monterey
area during the Korean conflict and got myself a
moonlighting job in Salinas teaching a JC class. One of the
lady students once asked me if I had read any Steinbeck
and I probably mentioned Cannery Row. But she went on
to tell me that Steinbeck was a long time friend.
But there is more to be said about the scenery and beauty
and Salinas Valley and the Monterey peninsula...
East of Eden so far appears superior to the other
Steinbeck books that I remember reading years ago. Also
it's quite a change from reading Capote.
Ernie
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (54 of 57), Read 24 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:21 AM
Ernie, I'm SO glad you're joining in this with us! I really
look forward to your thoughts on these characters. Aren't
you a psychologist? Are there really people born with a
spiritual flaw? Emotional monsters, as Steinbeck claims?
And, is Steinbeck correct when he says there is only one
story in life, that the single human story is that of a
seeking of love, especially the love of a parent?
Isn't the Salinas Valley the locale for Grapes of Wrath, too?
Ruth, I went on a Steinbeck marathon when I was 20 or
so, but I can't remember reading Tortilla Flats or Sweet
Thursday. I remember I wasn't too gung-ho over Cannery
Row, loved Grapes of Wrath (isn't that the story of the
Joads?) but always, ALWAYS considered EofE to be my
favorite Steinbeck. Between TF and ST, which would you
consider to be the better book? I'd love to discuss another
Steinbeck.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (55 of 57), Read 14 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Saturday, June 01, 2002 02:07 PM
Cannery Row and Sweet Thursday are a series of 2. I read
them years and years and years ago during my own
Steinbeck Period.
Reread them a couple of years ago on tape. It is a most
excellent tape. Perfect. I'd have to check with the library to
find out which reader/company it was.
Tortilla Flats - I have the feeling that this one wouldn't
stand up to the PC Filter nowadays.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (56 of 57), Read 13 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dottie Randall
Date:
Saturday, June 01, 2002 03:57 PM
Ruth -- have you read Boyle's The Tortilla Curtain? I am
wondering how a reading of Steinbeck's Tortilla Flats
would hold paired with The Tortilla Curtain -- maybe Dale
has read the Steinbeck -- I am certain he read the Boyle
book. It might be an interesting comparison of time frames
in regard to topic treatment. Haven't had the chance to
check out the Steinbeck holdings in the Bib yet but will
grab East of Eden if it is on the shelf. Have been enjoying
eavesdropping on this discussion.
Dottie
"Only there's now, and now, And the wind in the grass."
from An Eternity, Archibald MacLeish
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (2 of 23), Read 50 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Saturday, June 01, 2002 04:35 PM
Gosh! I've been playing 'On The Water' and forgot to go
back and read that intro for EofE!
I'll go do that now.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (3 of 23), Read 50 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Saturday, June 01, 2002 07:09 PM
Thanks, Beej and Ruth for reminding me of the details of
this story. I'm enjoying sharing ideas with you. I am left
with the conclusion that Adam had options and that he
"mayest" have reacted differently to Cal's gift but chose the
most evil one.
I was a bit surprised to see Steinbeck's mention of "born
monsters" as it seems to contradict the notion of "thou
mayest" which seems central to the book.
Even Kate, if I recall correctly, is not born evil but becomes
evil after being horribly abused as a child. If we say that a
child is too young to choose, children always imitate which
also contradicts the notion of "born monster." So,
Steinbeck's quote seems to confuse rather than enlighten
the book for me.
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (4 of 23), Read 56 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Saturday, June 01, 2002 08:13 PM
'. I am left with the conclusion that Adam had options and that
he "mayest" have reacted differently to Cal's gift but chose the
most evil one.
Dean, I agree with you. Adam was supposed to be the
'good' brother, but he CHOSE to react in a way that was
most harmful. And, the worst thing about it was that he
knew! He knew because he lived through it with his own
father and brother. And how appalling it was that Lee, of all
people, told Cal his father had no choice! Why did he do
that? He knew better, too! Timshel! Lee was the one who
searched for the true meaning of that Hebrew word! And
we know Lee knew better, because of what he did during
Adam's death scene!
Was Cathy abused as a child?? I don't remember that, but
to tell the truth, I cannot remember much interaction that
she had as a child with her father. I remember stuff that
happened with her mother, but now I almost feel as if I
simply blotted out any memory of her dad!
What a great point you make comparing the inevitability of
a born monster with the idea of Thou mayest. Wow! Do you
think Cathy was capable of making choices that were not
rooted in evil?
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (5 of 23), Read 53 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Saturday, June 01, 2002 08:55 PM
Beej, that's an excellent point that Adam should have
known better.
Cathy had long ago stopped loving. It always seemed to
have been a cage for her from which to break out or to
avoid but I think that her encounter with her son in the end
does produce a flicker of affection in her and she does
choose to do something good.
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (6 of 23), Read 57 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Saturday, June 01, 2002 09:26 PM
By good do you mean leaving her money to Cal? But then
what about Aron? She knows nothing really of either boy,
she's in no position to judge whether there's any
justification for cutting out Aron. It may provide a nice mirror
image of what Adam did, but I don't think it absolves Cathy
at all.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (7 of 23), Read 66 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Saturday, June 01, 2002 09:35 PM
I thought she left the money to Aron. Somehow, he
touched a chord in her, but God knows why. He was soft
and fragile and it seemed Cathy abhorred that in others.
She's such an interesting, complex character...she saw
herself in Cal, and at first admired him, as she did Charles.
But, when he brought Aron to see her and what she was,
she hated him.
You know, that's a really interesting question..Why DID she
leave Aron (at least, I'm pretty certain it was Aron) that
money?
Did she do that to drive a wedge between the brothers, to
make Cal hate his brother?
I have a difficult time thinking she really softened toward
Aron. She saw her own blond looks in him, his physical
beauty, and was attracted to him because of that, but I
don't think she softened toward, or had any altruistic
motives for anything she ever did.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (8 of 23), Read 58 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:45 PM
She left it to Aron? How could I have made that mistake?
Sheesh.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (9 of 23), Read 60 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Sunday, June 02, 2002 01:29 AM
Ruth, what I meant was that for the first time she made
some connection with another person. She even feels a
hint of loss and remorse.
That the book shows us this aspect of Cathy seems to be
saying that even the most evil person is capable of feeling
some humanity and seems to again contradict Steinbeck's
quote about the "born monster."
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (10 of 23), Read 65 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Sunday, June 02, 2002 05:18 PM
I've just gotten around to reading Wyatt's introduction, or
at least starting it, and I think part of our answer to the
questions concerning Cathy, are right here, in the
beginning of the intro.
Apparently this born monster issue is one that has been
debated since EofE was first published. Steinbeck says
Cathy is the flip side of the saints, a "TOTAL
REPRESENTATIVE OF SATAN," to quote Steinbeck, himself.
He goes on to liken her to Melville's white whale, and
through this, I can begin to see what he means. What she
is, and she is pure evil, is a product of her nature, just as
Moby was what he was. Cathy may have also been ABLE,
to choose good over evil, but in doing that, she would have
gone against the total and complete nature of everything
she was; in essence, it would have contradicted everything
she was. (And, when you think of it, even Satan had the
choice between good and evil.)
Timshel applied to Cathy, too, but I think what made her a
born monster was that by her very nature, she would
always choose the dark side.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (11 of 23), Read 64 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ernest Belden drernest@pacbell.net
Date:
Tuesday, June 04, 2002 12:48 AM
Beej, Ruth & all,
This is my first day (evening) on the new board. It looks
familiar and is not intimidating. I am continuing (in my own
slow fashion) reading East of Eden and feel overwhelmed
by the beauty and wisdom of the author.
Beej, to answer your question: Yes I am a retired
psychologist but try to keep up with research and new
development. There is no question that there are people
who are born or develop spiritual flaws even of the worst
magnitude. These people are totally amazing by being so
different. Many hide their serious flaws, others exhibit them
openly. They range from mild to gruesome.
The other question: Do all people seek love I am not sure
about. Normal average people yes but there are exceptions
and some people are terrified of love. The secret of a happy
life is probably to be at least moderately successful in this
search and not expect too much of a good thing. Goethe
says something like that in his final lines of Faust.
I am not sure about the location of The Grapes of Wrath.
Can't remember it any more. I do know the location of
Cannery Row and may still be there, namely in Monterey
where the fish processing plants were located. The
buildings, the last I saw of them, contain all sorts of stores
now. A fantastic sea world aquarium is located there as
well.
I hope we will have a chance to look around the area about
two weeks from now when we are driving from San
Francisco to Santa Barbara where my grand daughter will
be getting her degree.
Ernie
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (12 of 23), Read 68 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, June 04, 2002 12:08 PM
Thanks, Ernie. The character of Cathy absolutely fascinates
me. I would consider her an accurate portrayal of a
sociopath, and as such, I did a little bit of research on the
sociopathic personality, and what I found would be quite
relevant here, i think.
First off, I found this:
' The causes are often "poor parental discipline, association
with "bad" kids, and poor bonding with parents..." [Heller, 75].
But the causes can also be mostly biological.'
This says to me that Steinbeck (as well as Ernie) is correct
insofar as there really is such a thing as a 'born monster,'
someone biologically deficient in human emotions.
As for 'timshel' and how it might apply to someone like
Cathy, I found this...and the caps are the author's, not
mine:
' some psychopaths appear to show some insight into their
own personality make-up ; however, this does not really mean
that they care how they behave. THEY CHOOSE TO BEHAVE
THIS WAY.'
And, to top it off, and something I think has extremely great
bearing on this story, here is a trait of a sociopath:
'a person lacking eros..'
If Steinbeck's claim, that happiness is greatly based on
parental love, is true, can you imagine the impact on a child
of a sociopath; a person devoid of eros, as defined as the
ability to love outside of oneself? And, as Wyatt says in his
intro to EofE;
'The only love one feels is the love one feels FOR someone
else.'
Ernie, is a sociopath capable of making selfless choices
based on a love for someone outside of themselves? Dean
believes Cathy began to feel something for Aron, and I do
remember Cathy experiencing something she was not
familiar with in regards to Aron, something she found to be
confusing. And, last, what is the difference between eros
and self-love? Is self love merely 'ego' and eros a love for
that which is outside of one's self? (until I began to read up
on this sociopath stuff, I had always thought of 'eros' as a
romantic love.)
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (13 of 23), Read 48 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Ernest Belden drernest@pacbell.net
Date:
Friday, June 07, 2002 12:51 AM
Beej,
You hit on some very complex problems in the fields of
psychology and psychiatry. Up to perhaps 10 years ago
next to nothing was known of the functions of the brain
except for descriptive brain anatomy and certain centers
(language for instance. Brain injuries made things even
more confusing since two people having the same identical
injury may show very different symptoms. Freud and his
school as well as the Jungians only theorized or should I
say fantasized about he nature of the brain.
Well we now can watch the brain in action, problem solving,
etc. by means of brain scans and similar devices. We are
now able to observe the circuitry of thoughts and especially
problem solving. We know that if one part of the brain
becomes dysfunctional new circuitry evolves. One of the
newer theories about psychopathy claims that the thought
and problem circuits do not tie to the fore brain which
provides "judgment". Also there are brain hormones and
neurotransmitters which have important functions. Of
course what I just wrote are oversimplifications of an area
of which I know but little. But the future will offer new and
amazing insights into our thought processes.
To me there is nothing more complex, intricate and magical
than the brain. When it comes to complexity it beats
computers a million to one.
Ernie
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (14 of 23), Read 57 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Friday, June 07, 2002 08:12 AM
Thanks, Ernie. How INCREDIBLY fascinating.
I gather what you're saying is that the brain is simply too
complicated, too individually unique and there are just too
many variables to give a sweeping answer to my question,
" is a sociopath capable of making selfless choices based on
a love for someone outside of themselves?"
I've just finished reading 'In Cold Blood,' and one of the
psychiatric evaluations of, I believe, Perry Hickock, who was
a paranoid schizophrenic, was that his thoughts were
completely disassociated from his feelings. It sounds to me
that this falls precisely in with what you write...'One of the
newer theories about psychopathy claims that the thought
and problem circuits do not tie to the fore brain which provides
"judgment".'
Cathy was a 'born monster,' her brain born disfunctional. I
wonder, if someone is BORN with this sort of disfunction, is
it still possible for new brain circuitry to evolve? My instincts
tell me 'no' (how can the brain try to 'repair' itself when it
has nothing to compare itself to for reference? It seems to
me that the brain would have no way to know it's 'broken'
and needs repaired.) And if that's correct, I don't see how
Cathy could have possibly made her decision to leave Aron
her estate based on any altruistic motivation.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (15 of 23), Read 20 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Monday, June 10, 2002 10:02 PM
Ruth, just to let you know, on your recommendation, I
picked up 'Cannery Row.' I read it a long, long time ago,
and have vague memories of not caring for it as much as I
did EofE or 'Grapes of Wrath,' but maybe now that I'm
older, I'll see it in a different light.
Did you say 'Sweet Thursday' was the sequel to 'Cannery
Row?' That's one I've not read.
(Dean, would you be up to another Steinbeck, by any
chance?)
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (16 of 23), Read 22 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 01:22 AM
Yes, Beej, I would love to discuss another work by
Steinbeck. Any one which you choose would be fine with
me.
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (17 of 23), Read 20 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 07:38 AM
Oh, thank you! I have both 'Grapes of Wrath' and 'Cannery
Row.' GofW is a long book, Cannery Row is much shorter,
so why don't you decide which would be better for you, and
I'll follow suit.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (18 of 23), Read 17 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 11:04 AM
OK, let's discuss "Cannery Row" because in August I will be
moving to what was formerly Vancouver's cannery row. I
hope that you enjoy it more this time than you did before.
I'll start reading as soon as I get it from the library this
evening. This will be my first read of this.
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (19 of 23), Read 16 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 11:53 AM
Okay, 'Cannery Row' it is then! There are only 185 pages in
this one, so we can get through it in no time.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (20 of 23), Read 18 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 12:04 PM
There's an absolutely outstanding audiobook of Cannery
Row. A perfect reading of this hilarious book.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (21 of 23), Read 21 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 12:08 PM
I have never listened to an audio book in my life! I've got
the trade paperback of 'Cannery Row,' but maybe the time
has come for me to try the audio book route.
Ruth, is 'Sweet Thursday' a sequel to this one?
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (22 of 23), Read 18 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 12:13 PM
Do 'em both, Beej. Different experiences. And the audio's
only 4 tapes.
I just checked our library, the audiobook is
narrated by Jerry Farden, Recorded Books, Inc., 1989.
Yes, Sweet Thursday comes next.
Ruth
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (23 of 23), Read 19 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 12:22 PM
Okay, thanks, will do! I just checked my library, and it does,
indeed, have the audio book narrated by Farden.
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (24 of 28), Read 40 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Wednesday, June 12, 2002 01:24 AM
I picked up the book from the library today. I just looked
and I see that they have the audio version as well. I'll
listen to it after I finished reading it. Thanks for the
recommendation, Ruth.
Beej, when did you want to start the discussion? Is
Monday June 17 a good date?
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (25 of 28), Read 45 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Wednesday, June 12, 2002 07:48 AM
Sure! June 17th is fine with me. I haven't picked up the
audiobook yet, but I'll do that today or tomorrow and while
I'm at it, I'll get 'Sweet Thursday' too.
I'll start a new thread on 'Cannery Row' in the next couple
of days so we can discuss it as we go along.
If anybody else would like to join us, this book only has
185 pages and I think we can have fun with it.
(Steinbeck's books are easy reading, but say a lot, and his
writing is really lyrically beautiful.)
Beej
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (26 of 28), Read 42 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:16 AM
Thanks, Beej.
Your description of Steinbeck's writing is excellent and is
confirmed from the opening pages of "Cannery Row."
Dean
All roads lead to roam.
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (27 of 28), Read 37 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Pres Lancaster plancast@neteze.com
Date:
Wednesday, June 12, 2002 01:25 PM
The 42nd Street Moon is a San Francisco theatrical
company devoted to producing "old" musicals in
bare-boards fashion with lots of enthusiasm. They put on
about six or eight shows a year using various local
performers. The company is a poor man's version of New
York City's Encores company.
Last Sunday I saw their production of Pipe Dreams, an
Rodgers & Hammerstein musical based on STEINBECK'S
SWEET THURSDAY. Great fun. Good performance.
Note: The opera singer, Helen Traubel, appeared in the
original NY production - played the Madame of the local
whorehouse. Wasn't suited to the part. Isolde is a
Madame?
pres
Topic:
East of Eden - John Steinbeck (28 of 28), Read 38 times
Conf:
Classics Corner
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Wednesday, June 12, 2002 02:39 PM
Pres, I hope you'll stick around when we get to reading
and discussing 'Sweet Thursday.' It'll be fun to hear how
the stage handles various scenes from this one!
Beej
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