To: ALL Date: 01/13
From: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Time: 1:00 AM
"DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR,
Devils and angels all were there,
Heel and toe, pair by pair,
Dancing at the rascal fair."
In the late 18th and early 19th Centuries, people poured
into Montana from points East. My grandfather was one of
them, coming from Minnesota and homesteading near Scobey, in
Montana's northeastern corner, where gently rolling plains
seem to go on forever. Although DATRF is set farther west,
in what might be considered the "pretty part of Montana," I
feel that Doig captured the strength and resilience of all
Montanans. Montana took the people who flocked to it and
had its way with them. It made them successful or made them
fail, it made them or broke them. What was it that made Rob
bitter in the end? Was it the knowledge that he had
betrayed his best friend and tore apart his family? Or was
it the years' accumulation of Montana hardship?
This was my second reading of this book, and although I
remembered that I liked it very much, I had forgotten enough
about it to have it become, happily, a surprise and a
discovery all over again. I have always enjoyed "pioneer"
stories and books, having grown up hearing tales much like
them from my parents. That is what drew me to this book for
the first reading. The second, however, opened new
emotions. The first brought to life the hardships of
pioneering, the feeling of destiny, the hard work that, if
you're lucky, results in a toehold on the land for your
descendants. I enjoyed the drama of it, the telling of how
it was. The second reading brought to life the love story
of Angus and Anna. Perhaps it's due to where I am in my
life now that this time I heard and felt Angus' deep
feelings of love and of loss.
I read Doig's newest, BUCKING THE SUN, and I was put off by
the flippancy of his writing in that book. What were, in
DATRF, clever turns of phrase and inspiring uses of words
were, I felt, carried to an uncomfortable extreme in BTS.
But rereading DATRF was a pleasure, a rediscovery of Doig's
talents. I enjoy his way of finding new meanings of words,
his way of turning them ever so slightly on their sides so
we can see them in new ways.
C G Carole
=============== Reply 1 of Note 40 =================
To: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Date: 01/13
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 7:15 AM
Carole,
I knew I wouldn't finish DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR
before the discussion began! I've been going in so many
directions since finding CR such a short time ago.
Yes, I love Doig's style. He seems to be writing with a
twinkle in his eye. It occurred to me that I haven't read
too many books written in the first person by a man. It's
definitely different.
This is the first time I've ever sat at dinner & told
my husband the plot of a story as I go along. He's enjoying
it too! I tell him every surprise & twist I find in the
book & it's fun to see the interest in his face.
It was so fascinating the way Lucas solved the problem
with Nancy in the beginning. Clever man!
Doig gives us some new similes to savor. One I liked
was, "Lucas was as merry as thick jam on thin bread.".
(That is *literally* one to savor!)
I am also enjoying his comments on life. One which I
thought was especially expressive was, "...it ought to make
the sea weep itself dry, what people can do to people."
-Joy
=============== Reply 2 of Note 40 =================
To: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Date: 01/13
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 9:11 AM
Dear Carole,
I'm way behind on this book because of a certain Dickens
that I've been reading. I tried to read the two together,
but felt I was making NO headway. So . . .will join in the
discussion as soon as I get up to speed. I know Ruth has
finished the book and will be back from visiting her mother
soon. Thanks for starting the thread.
Sherry in the urban tundra
=============== Reply 4 of Note 40 =================
To: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Date: 01/13
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 11:39 PM
Carole, Joy, and all,
I finished the book yesterday. My love for pioneer stories
dates back to the second grade when my mother introduced me
to THE LITTLE HOUSE series. I adored all of those books,
and I reread them when I was in my 20's. Anyway, I
particularly like Angus's way of trying to defuse a
situation. He always tells us what he is thinking and then
what he says. That scene near the end when Angus, Rob, and
Varick are bringing home the loads of hay during the
blizzard was so apropos of our weather here right now. I
thought of them sitting out in the frigid cold as I was
driving to work today, in my nice warm car. My mother's
father settled in Wyoming about the time that Rob and Angus
arrived in Montana, so I thought of him when I read this
book. I will post some more when I gather my thoughts.
Jane in frigid Colorado.
=============== Reply 5 of Note 40 =================
To: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Date: 01/14
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 11:05 PM
Carole & all those discussing DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR:
If you don't hear from me for a day or so, it's because
I'm trying to finish DATRF. I'm really wrapped up in Angus'
story & by now I can almost hear his voice & the rhythm of
his speech as I read. His story is breaking my heart. He's
such a tender-hearted man. And so full of wit!
I'm not reading anymore of the discussion until I finish
the book, because I don't want to know what happens until I
read it...& the discussion may give some things away.
BTW, I told Eddie about the way Angus solved the girls'
outhouse problem. Eddie's response was, "Let the punishment
fit the crime." LOL! I'll be back. -Joy
=============== Reply 6 of Note 40 =================
To: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Date: 01/15
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 1:58 AM
Just a short note to say that I found DANCING AT THE RASCAL
FAIR a pleasurable read. It's the kind of book I used to
dote on, a long involved story about people and how they
lived there lives. I'm attracted to more pschologically
based novels now, that concentrate more deeply on
relationships over a shorter period of time. But that's
neither here nor there. DATR was easy swimming, but not
simplistic. I enjoyed it. It reminded me a lot of ANGLE OF
REPOSE. Did it strike any of you others that way?
Ruth, home in southern California where the palms march in
straight lines across the valley, the hills are greener than
truth and the mountains are winter white
=============== Reply 7 of Note 40 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 01/15
From: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Time: 11:10 AM
Hi Ruth, I'm intrigued by your comment comparing ANGLE OF
REPOSE to DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR. I have read both, and
would like to hear your thoughts about that. How did you
find them similar?
Carole, who will spend today thinking back to AOR
=============== Reply 8 of Note 40 =================
To: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Date: 01/15
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 1:24 PM
Carole, I should know better than to try to answer that
question online, but here goes. They were both stories of
people in the early days of the west. I don't remember
exactly where AOR was set, but if it wasn't Montana it was
close to it. And there was that theme of a frustrated love
affair that ran through both. And in both cases I got a
little irritated at people who pine away over something that
can't be helped rather than just getting on with their
lives.
Ruth, where it's cold, dark, and rainy
=============== Reply 9 of Note 40 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 01/15
From: ACCR69A JOSEPH BARREIRO Time: 3:06 PM
Ruth and all - DATRF reminded me a lot of Stegner, more in
terms of theme and landscape than style. I found it more
similar to BIG ROCK CANDY MOUNTAIN thematically than ANGLE
OF REPOSE, as that also dealt with immigrants (Norwegian
rather than Scotch) and a marriage that was unsatisfactory
though mutually accepted on largely unspoken terms. Doig
certainly has his own style - as Joy already commented, he
excellently captured the rhythms of speech and thoughts of
his characters, most particularly the men. Angus, Rob and
Lucas are marvelous personalities - I was swiftly caught up
in their wide-eyed adventure into a new life. Angus'
reliability as narrator suffered greatly once he was dumped
by Anna - he is unable to articulate the madness of his
unrequited desire for a woman who basically kept him
dangling for twenty years. The women seemed less
well-drawn. Nancy was a cipher, Anna became enshrined as
an avatar of Angus' desire, and Adair was cryptic in that
I, much like her brother, was never as comfortable as she
appeared to be with her acceptance of the circumstances of
her marriage. It seemed that despite his protestations to
the contrary Angus truly deceived himself about the
unhealthy nature of his obsessive love. He knowingly
failed Adair in his inconstancy of affection and admired
her for being a trooper about it. Rob's concern for his
sister is understandable to the reader if not to Angus -
not so his spiteful descent into the delivery of invective
which made made an almost irreparable breach between father
and son. Was it the inexorable progression of
years of frustration about finances, the difficulties year
after year of making a decent living, or jealousy of the
masculine filial bond that made him throw off and discard
the bonds that had been forged over many years with Angus?
Doig never really lets us know - it is probably the central
tragedy of this novel, that a man's heart can never be
known, often even to himself. I had read only one other
Doig novel previous to this, THE SEARUNNERS, which is
completely different in terms of style and theme from DATRF
- it is about the escape of four men from indentured
servitude on a Russian island off the Alaskan coast in the
19th century. I enjoyed it a great deal, though Sir Richard
in Alaska did not find Doig's descriptions of the Pacific
wilderness as captivating as I did, who have never
experienced it first-hand. I enjoyed reading this
novel, and I'll be willing to read more Doig in the future.
Joe B "Reason alone can never explain how the heart
behaves."
=============== Reply 10 of Note 40 =================
To: ACCR69A JOSEPH BARREIRO Date: 01/15
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 11:30 PM
Joe,
I enjoyed your note. Your last quote reminded of something
Woody Allen said a few years ago when he dumped Mia Farrow
for her stepdaughter.
I think that Rob wanted a son like Varick. The two of them
were very close until Rob betrayed Angus by telling Varick
about A.'s love for Anna. In true Rob fashion, he
exaggerated the scene between Anna and Angus by saying that
"They were really going at it" to Varick. After the
rupture, Varick was cooler to Rob than he had been, so I
think that Rob's plan backfired. Rob intended this
as a warning to Angus, but he went too far. Rob wanted to
draw the family closer together when in fact he did just the
opposite. This is why I think that he was so bitter. He
was at fault and he did not want to admit it. We all know
people like Rob who let their egos get in the way - "I am
going to stick to what I said even if it kills me." Jane
who would not like to live in Montana.
=============== Reply 11 of Note 40 =================
To: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Date: 01/16
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 11:05 AM
Carole & all:
I finally finished it! Went to bed & couldn't sleep.
DATRF left me slightly dissatisified, even tho I enjoyed
every minute of reading it. With all the frustrations of
life thrown in, the last straw was poor Scorpion's fate.
What did he do to deserve that?
Seriously, reading all of your comments so soon after I
finished the book, truly extended the pleasure of my
reading. Your reading experiences helped to put the book in
perspective for me.
As Joseph's final quote suggested, there were many
questions unanswered for me in the book. I understood the
obssessive love. I understood the family resentments. I
don't think the book adequately explained why Anna chose
Isaac Reese over Angus. The character of Isaac Reese was
vague to me. I needed to know what he had that Angus
didn't. What did Anna see in Isaac? I don't think it was
just his position of security & money. I don't buy that
Anna chose Isaac to satisfy her parents. If Anna had
this great love for Isaac, why was she so drawn to
Angus? I kept suspecting that Rob had done something to
influence Anna's decision to marry Isaac. But what could it
have been? You can see that I'm interested in the love
angle, teen-ager that I am!
The big question was the reason for Rob's unhappiness &
change of personality. His wife, Judith's character was a
bit thinly drawn. I kept saying to myself, Rob's marriage
doesn't sound too happy either. A happy marriage can make
up for so many other frustrations. Perhaps if Judith had
been more of a love to him, he could have come thru the
hard Montana life more intact. Given his self-centered
personality, I didn't see that just his worry over his
sister could make him so bitter. Yes, he wanted a son, but
Angus didn't have the personality to make someone jealous.
In fact, he shared his son with his brother-in-law Rob in
the beginning. Perhaps Rob was subconsciously jealous of
the great love that Angus had experienced with Anna.
Throughout the book I felt sorry for Angus. At the end
of the book I started to have more sympathy for Adair. As
the book jacket expressed so well, her marriage was a
"love born of [Angus's] heart-break" and she demonstrated a
"stoical devotion" throughout.
Funny, I had less sympathy for Rob. He turned everyone
away from him. He had such potential as a person. Or
perhaps he didn't. Or perhaps he was the one who had lost
out the most in life. What if he had married Nancy? Was she
just an "infection" with a quick cure, or could she have
developed into a cure herself, bringing more fulfillment to
Rob. As they said in the book, (I think), too bad there
couldn't have been two Nancy's, one for lovable Lucas & one
for the rascal, Rob. -Joy
=============== Reply 12 of Note 40 =================
To: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Date: 01/16
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 11:16 AM
Oh, I forgot to mention the one quote, among many in
DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR, that I shall never forget:
p.333-"The one pure language of love is Braille."
Joy
=============== Reply 13 of Note 40 =================
To: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Date: 01/16
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 11:52 AM
One more thing...
As I read DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR, I wondered if
Angus had had a daughter instead of a son, would the
daughter have forgiven him the pain he caused Adair more
readily than did his son? Especially after Angus tried so
hard to explain himself & to make peace.
I doubt if a daughter can hold a grudge against a father
as long as a son, especially a father as truthful &
soft-spoken as Angus. But then again, I've got a crush on
Angus.
Also, what did you think of Angus' love for Adair. I
think back to how he was willing to take anything from
Varick as long as Varick was good to his mother. I'd like
to think that the love between Angus & Adair grew as they
matured into their later years. But I guess the memory of
Anna would always be there to lessen the force of the love.
Still, I think Angus loved Adair more than he himself
realized. -Joy
=============== Reply 14 of Note 40 =================
To: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Date: 01/16
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 12:21 PM
Or did Angus want Varick to be good to his mother because
he(Angus) knew full well how much he (Angus) was
shortchanging her? Guilt is a powerful motivator. I agree
that Rob's wife was a nonentity. I did like Angus for quite
a bit of the book, but then I completely lost patience with
the boob. Come on, the woman ditched ya, and not too kindly
at that. Leave it be and get on with life.
What did Anna do to deserve all this devotion? Love at
first sight is often built on a house of sand. And yes, her
motives for marrying Isaac were not clear or convincing at
all.
Ruth, in sunny blue California
=============== Reply 15 of Note 40 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 01/16
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 4:09 PM
Ruth,
Good point. Angus never verbalized his guilt, did he?
I suppose he must have felt it, although I got the
impression he excused himself on the grounds that Adair
knew what she was getting into when she married him.
I think Angus would have had an easier time getting over
his obsession with Anna if she wasn't living in the same
community. Also, Joseph's Barreiro's idea that Anna was the
embodiment of Angus' desire may explain why he couldn't
shake the obsession. Desire goes to the core of our being.
Perhaps if Angus had married Anna, his obsession would have
slowly cooled down. Joy, no expert on obsessive love
=============== Reply 16 of Note 40 =================
To: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Date: 01/16
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 10:59 PM
Joy and Ruth,
I didn't understand why Angus continued loving Anna either
after all of those years. It kind of reminded me of the
obsessive love in BRIDGES OF MADISON COUNTY. I had no
patience with those two because they completely gave up on
life after they parted. Angus at least made a life for
himself. And of course, this DATF is a zillion times better
than BRIDGES. Your point about Judith is well taken, and we
also don't get to know his daughters at all. It is just
Angus, Adair, Rob, and Varick and Lucas at the beginning.
Nancy fades into the background. Rob's life should have been
quite lively with all of those women around. Jane in Co
=============== Reply 17 of Note 40 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 01/17
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 8:17 AM
Jane & all,
Yes, I also thought about how lively Rob's life should
have been with all those daughters to dote on. I almost
hate to be pulling apart Doig's story like this, because it
gave me so many hours of pleasure in the reading. But
that's what we're here for! (See my next post.)-Joy
PS-Jane, I thought your comparison with the obsessive love
in BRIDGES of MADISON COUNTY was a good one. And yes, DATRF
was much better than BRIDGES, as you say. But I didn't get
the impression that in BRIDGES they completely gave up on
life. I have to think about that. I thought they just went
on with their lives. Anyway, thanks for the reference. -J.
=============== Reply 18 of Note 40 =================
To: ACCR69A JOSEPH BARREIRO Date: 01/17
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 8:18 AM
Joseph, Ruth, Jane & all:
As for why Angus continued loving Anna after all those
years, I thought he expressed his helplessness &
hopelessness fairly well. (Sometimes trying to let go of
these things is like trying to pull yourself up by your own
bootstraps. Can't be done.) (And don't forget, Anna made
the mistake of giving Angus the idea that there was a
chance for them, perhaps in the future.)
I've gone thru my notes & culled certain quotes to
demonstrate what I'm referring to. I thought these were
pretty powerful statements on Angus' part:
p.286-[Anna to Angus]:"If I ever see that Isaac & I have
become wrong together, I'll know in the next minute to turn
to you." [And Angus' conclusion]:"I was not irredeemably
guilty of loving her hopelessly."
p.290-[Angus]:"...Anna & my helpless love for her."
p.246-[Angus]:"...in silent love with a woman not my
wife...Angus the Hopless. If I could have changed myself
from that, would I? Yes, every time...For it was like
having a second simultaneous existence...one...husband &
father...the other the mute Angus who did nothing but love
Anna Reese...one existence too many for the amount of me
available."
p.246-[and he goes on with his pondering, which I
particulary enjoyed]:"Was everyone more than the single
face they showed the world?...And were there divisions in
people relentlessly at war with each other, as mine were?"
So, I conclude that Angus really couldn't help himself.
I believe that he did the best he could in trying to get on
with his life. In fact, this story is like a cartharsis for
him, as he tells of his sad predicament. And as I read his
words, they became like a catharsis for me too. That's why
I read. -Joy
=============== Reply 19 of Note 40 =================
To: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Date: 01/17
From: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Time: 11:51 AM
Just finished RASCAL and couldn't resist immediately going
to CR to download all these really interesting notes. Like
many of you, my grandparents were also immigrants (to South
Dakota), but they died before I was born so I never had the
chance to know them. I do, however, enjoy reading about the
immigrant experience, and I especially liked reading about
this area of Montana.
I think Joe hit the nail on the head when he pointed out
that the women characters were weakly drawn. The central
story is probably the friendship between Rob and Angus, but
the love triangle (which exists primarily in Angus's mind)
is absolutely critical to the plot. And I must admit that I
had a lot of trouble understanding his obsessive love. I'm
with Ruth on this one --why couldn't he just get on with his
life? He was involved with Anna for such a short time, but
apparently one night of bliss was enough to hold him captive
for 20 years. And did anyone else notice that Anna was
something of a loose woman by 19th century standards? She
wasn't a virgin when Angus met her, and she spent the entire
summer sleeping with Issac before she married him.Then she
tortured Angus by keeping him on a string --maybe, just
maybe, she would leave her husband for him sometime. I kept
hoping we would get some insight into her history and what
motivated her, but there was none. I know that when we
discussed SNOW FALLING ON CEDARS, some couldn't understand
why Ishmael couldn't just get over Hatsue and grow up. I was
not among them. So maybe I am inconsistent in understanding
one case of obsessive love, but not another.
Adair was the most interesting of the female characters. I
did wonder why she kept speaking of herself in the third
person, a la Bob Dole. Was this supposed to indicate her
sense of detachment? She certainly had my sympathy. I felt
that Doig had a good understanding of how difficult the
social isolation was for frontier women, and this is one
aspect of the story that reminded me of ANGLE OF REPOSE.
Stegner was better at seeing the problems of an imperfect
marriage from both the female and male point of view,
however.
Rob is really an intriguing character to me. If he felt
guilt for turning Varick against his father, it had to be
really subliminal because he was so self-centered. I liked
what Lucas ( a wonderful character IMHO) had to say about
Rob finding a wife:
"He's my own nephew, but that lad is sufficiently in love
with himself that it won't much matter who he marries.
Whoever she is, she'll never replace him in his own
affections."
Still, at the start of the story, his zest for adventure and
his sense of humor made him quite attractive. I think what
broke him was the constant economic struggle. Financial
success was very important to him, and he couldn't seem to
hold onto it.
Ann, who thinks that actually living with Anna, rather than
just desiring her, would have cured Angus rather quickly
of his infatuation.
=============== Reply 20 of Note 40 =================
To: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Date: 01/17
From: NCSH82B BARBARA MOORS Time: 9:35 PM
Finished listening to RASCAL this week on tape and have
been reading your notes and reflecting about it since.
Count me as another with immigrant grandparents, to
Nebraska from Denmark. I've heard the stories since I was
very young and they come in layers of new meaning as I get
older.
This is the second book I've listened to by Doig. The
first was called RIDE WITH ME, MARIAH MONTANA and is a
continuation of the story of this family...listened to it
out of sequence. RASCAL is much better. In any case,
either in that one or RASCAL, there was a dedication to
Stegner that was a significant tribute. I had the sense
that Doig had been a student of his and I see a lot of
similarities. The theme of relationships over time and
their development in positive or negative ways with a
particular emphasis on the ones that aren't easily
ended...or that we don't want to end...seems common to both
(wow, what a long sentence). Angus' relationship with Rob
in this one was much like a marriage. I should note that
the first tape of my set was damaged so I missed most of
the ocean voyage. Can someone enlighten me if something
happened between the two men there that was significant?
I never quite understood why there was the underlying
resentment of the "Barkleys". I understood that Angus'
family struggled...were the Barkleys wealthier? I didn't
understand how that could be because Adair and her mother
were totally dependent on others after Rob's father's death.
In any case, Angus watching Rob sour with time as their
lives were so bound together by experience, geography,
marriage to Adair, etc....seemed to me to be the most
important theme of the book...along with the story of the
settlement of Montana. I tend to have a fascination with
the change in a person's personality over time so this was
just as interesting to me as I would guess it is to Doig.
Rob's vision of his future seemed to be fairly grandiose.
He made the gambles that Angus wouldn't make and thought
that he would get the pay-offs that Angus wouldn't get.
Instead, he finished as poor (and maybe poorer) as Angus.
I am guessing that Doig meant that to be part of the cause
of his embitterment. Also, Doig made a point of Rob's
jealousy of Angus' experience of having a son. And, Anna
also never seemed to take to Rob from the very beginning.
Was that meant to be part of his strong negative reaction
to her (even before she turned down Angus)...that she
wasn't susceptible to the "Barkley" charm? His telling
Varick of Angus' relationship with Anna seemed to be part
of all that...since he didn't have his own son, he needed
to make Angus and Varick less close and it also would hurt
Anna in some way. I never got a sense of him *truly*
caring about Adair. It seemed to be more a question of the
"Barkley pride." Angus was shaming the Barkleys by being
mentally untrue to Adair.
Adair was very sparsely drawn, but that seemed
appropriate since she was such an introverted character.
I kept remembering that she had been thrown upon the
charity of others in Scotland after her parents died...and
that would seem to explain some of her personality and her
decision to marry Angus despite her knowledge that she
wasn't really his choice. Her fate if she'd gone back to
Scotland without a husband would have been fairly grim.
This on-going relationship between two people who've made
the bargain to avoid loneliness, but who don't ever (until
the end, perhaps) get the full measure of each other is
pretty interesting stuff too.
And, I loved Lucas too, Ann. Great character. My
father's stories lead me to believe that people like this
really did exist on the frontier. And, that Scottish "Ai"
(don't know how they spelled it in the book) was done
really well by the reader on the bot).
In all, I enjoyed it. I don't think Doig's writing
reaches the level of Stegner's, but it was fun anyway.
Barb
=============== Reply 21 of Note 40 =================
To: NCSH82B BARBARA MOORS Date: 01/18
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 2:19 AM
Barbara & Ann,
I enjoyed reading your posts on RASCAL. Very
interesting. All points well taken.
-Joy
=============== Reply 22 of Note 40 =================
To: NCSH82B BARBARA MOORS Date: 01/19
From: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Time: 11:59 AM
Barb,
Great comments on RASCAL. Was it an unabridged tape that you
listened to? I would love to hear those Scottish accents.
Let me see if I can fill you in a little on the ocean
voyages since that first tape was damaged. Angus's family
had suffered a terrible tragedy. His 3 siblings had died in
a cholera epidemic and his parents ended up barely speaking
to each other. Angus worked on the books in the Barclay's
wheel making shop. Going to American was Rob's idea. Angus
was terrified of water (setting us up for the final scenes
of the novel), much as a modern day person might be
terrified of flying. Angus was always excessively cautious.
I think maybe he envied Rob's self-confidence and daring, at
least in the beginning of the book.
My book says that RASCAL is the second part of a trilogy. I
am really curious about the first and third books of the
trilogy. Do you remember much about RIDE WITH ME MARIAH
MONTANA, Barb?
Ann
=============== Reply 23 of Note 40 =================
To: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Date: 01/19
From: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Time: 12:58 PM
Ann, I have read ENGLISH CREEK and RIDE WITH ME, MARIAH
MONTANA. I believe DATRF is the first book in the trilogy.
If there is an earlier one, I don't know about it. I
enjoyed ENGLISH CREEK very much, RWMMM was okay, seemed more
like a travelogue throughout Montana by someone vaguely
bored by the whole thing. I remember it as being more
cynical than the earlier books.
I am overwhelmed by the comments regarding DATRF. I read
this book twice and thought I knew it pretty well, but it
takes input from others to really round out my experience of
it. One more (of the many) reasons to appreciate CRs.Carole
=============== Reply 24 of Note 40 =================
To: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Date: 01/19
From: NCSH82B BARBARA MOORS Time: 3:59 PM
Ann,
Yes, RASCAL was an unabridged tape. There actually was
very little evidence of the Scottish accents except the word
"Ai" (let me know how they spelled it if you get a chance)
and that word had exactly the right touch. Also, the
reader had a very distinctive delivery of everything that
Lucas said and it seemed just right to me. The award for
accents in a bot still goes to SMILLA'S SENSE OF
SNOW...think it was by Recorded Books, but I couldn't swear
to it. Loved all the Danish and Greenlandic words
pronounced for me.
Thanks for filling me in on the first few chapters. Some
of it I sort of picked up from the rest of the book, but
I'm sure it was more dominant if you'd actually read that
part.
From Carole's note, it sounds like ENGLISH CREEK
would be a better recommendation than MARIAH MONTANA.
RWMMM is told through the viewpoint of Angus' grandson and
Mariah is his daughter. They drive around Montana in a
camper along with Mariah's ex-husband to do a series of
articles for a Montana newspaper in connection with
Montana's bicentenniel. I didn't get the sense that Doig
was trying awfully hard in it...it was too much like a TV
movie. I would like to read ENGLISH CREEK though. Am
going to check and see if my library has it on tape since
they have the other two. I'm guessing that it has to do
with Varick and his family, since Mariah's father is
Varick's son. There are lots of flashbacks in RWMMM that
I'm assuming refer to events in ENGLISH CREEK and they
sounded interesting. Barb
=============== Reply 25 of Note 40 =================
To: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Date: 01/19
From: NCSH82B BARBARA MOORS Time: 3:59 PM
Carole,
Is ENGLISH CREEK about Varick's marriage and his son's?
It sounds like something I'd like to read based on the
story I know from the other two.
I certainly know what you mean about the discussion on CR
enhancing a book. I tend to opt for books read here over
books that I might rather read normally....because the talk
here makes them so much better.
Thanks for recommending this book. Barb
=============== Reply 26 of Note 40 =================
To: NCSH82B BARBARA MOORS Date: 01/19
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 7:12 PM
All,
I finished DANCING this afternoon and have just read all
your comments. You've covered about everything I had in
mind. I think it would have been much kinder if Anna had
given Angus no hope. I imagine that most men would have
been so angry at her for the unceremonious dumping that they
would have gotten over her fairly quickly. But when she gave
him that sliver of hope, she sort of ruined him. There is a
lack of basic decency in her rather conniving have a cake
and eat it too attitude that made me dislike Anna. I was
totally unconvinced about her reasons for marrying Isaac, as
were most of you, and I would have liked to have had her
real story. Joy, the thought crossed my mind, too, that
maybe Rob had something to do with her refusal. At first I
thought Rob was going to be Anna's lover--that would have
really set up some competition.
One thing that I don't think anyone has mentioned is how
Varick became such a product of the land. So American in
just one generation. He was a product of Montana just as
the riverbed was a result of the river. The land had such
an impact on him, and that must have been the way it was
with all the homesteaders' children. I find this idea
fascinating--how we are molded by what is around us. I
liked Varick a great deal. He had the idea that saved the
sheep; during the long blizzard trek, it was his ideas that
got them home; he had more sense that both Rob and Angus put
together. After Varick's stint in the army, and Angus' bout
with the flu, Varick came to his sense about his father and
Rob and must have realized how Rob manipulated him.
I also liked Adair.I think, though, that she might have con-
tributed to Angus' Anna obsession by not being really sure
she wanted to stay. Only at the very end did she say "Adair
is not going back to Scotland." It is understandable, under
the circumstances, that she hold herself in reserve, but if
she could have given him herself without reservations, it
might have helped Angus get off the fence. I liked her way
of speaking of herself in the third person. I do think it
was meant as a symbol of her stepping away from herself, but
also it was playful, and cheeky with a touch of
self-deprecation. I might take up that affectation myself.
Sherry who was just put her daughter on the plane for
college and is again an empty-nester
=============== Reply 27 of Note 40 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 01/19
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 8:26 PM
Sherry, Adair's way of speaking of herself in the third
person irked the hell out of me. Of course, the fact that
my ex talked like that when he wanted to brag, may have had
something to do with it. But, still, it sounded a
little affected to me.
I liked your point about how it only took the next
generation to become American. I'm a case in point, and so
are my step-children. Not only American, but Californian.
I recently read a book of essays and excerpts by various
women writers about how they are daughters of the West.
Ruth, who has no farmers, or Midwestern pioneers in her
makeup
=============== Reply 28 of Note 40 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 01/19
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 9:31 PM
Dear Ruth,
Well I guess Sherry shouldn't speak that way to Ruth, now,
should she?
I imagined a twinkle in Adair's eye when she spoke that way.
But I think that done the WRONG way, without a twinkle,
could be very annoying, infuriating even.
Sherry
=============== Reply 29 of Note 40 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 01/20
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 9:43 PM
Sherry, Carole, Ruth, Ann, Joy et al.,
Where are all of the men who usually discuss CR books with
us? I believe someone else posed this question, and I think
that Joe B. is the only man to participate. Like, dude,
this isn't the VALLEY OF THE DOLLS or somethin'.
Jane who has spent much too much time with teenagers.
=============== Reply 30 of Note 40 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 01/20
From: NDKB53A THERESA SIMPSON Time: 10:31 PM
Jane - I think good old Joe was also the only man to read my
selection (The Makioka Sisters). I guess he gets the
sensitive (and well-read) man award.
Theresa - who wanted to read Rascal, but couldn't find it at
the library or used book-store. I'm keeping my eyes open -
will read it someday.
=============== Reply 31 of Note 40 =================
To: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Date: 01/20
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 10:33 PM
I was wondering that exact same thing. Hey, guys, this book
is told from a MAN's point of view. Really! Written by one
too. Has horses and mountains and blizzards. Oh and a love
affair. Maybe that's it. Oh well,
Sherry
=============== Reply 32 of Note 40 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 01/21
From: SEZG73A STEVE WARBASSE Time: 8:00 AM
Aha! The truth outs: Men! Ya can't live with 'em,
and ya can't live without 'em. (Or as my pal Paul the
Broker says about women, "Ya can't live with 'em, and ya
can't live with 'em.")
Well, it just so happens that I am finishing up THE
ALEXANDRIA QUARTET and therefore now have openings on my
dance card. What would you ladies suggest we read and
discuss next? (I am obviously way too late to do this
book.)
Steve
=============== Reply 33 of Note 40 =================
To: SEZG73A STEVE WARBASSE Date: 01/21
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 9:10 AM
Dear Steve,
There you are! We're doing TONY AND SUSAN by Austin Wright
next--Jane's selection. As I said in some note somewhere,
let's try to start discussing it about the 2nd week of
February. (You're excused if you were reading AQ.)
Sherry
=============== Reply 34 of Note 40 =================
To: SEZG73A STEVE WARBASSE Date: 01/21
From: KGXC73A GAIL SINGER GROSS Time: 11:04 AM
greetings WILD MAN..
since you devour books after TONY and SUSAN..give margaret
atwood's new book a peek..ALIAS GRACE... excellent..
gail..hp..a passionate reader finishing a superb novel A
FINE BALANCE by mistry...a novel of INDIA...a vertibale
tome.. 603 pages...
=============== Reply 35 of Note 40 =================
To: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Date: 01/21
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 8:38 PM
Carole & Barb,
You were discussing where DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR
fits in Doig's trilogy. The following is a quote from a
little paragraph at the end of DATRF called "About the
Author":
"DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR" is the second novel of a
trilogy about his fictional McCaskill family & their Two
Medicine country. ENGLISH CREEK (1984) was the first."
I wonder what the third book in the trilogy was. From
what Barbara says, it was RIDE WITH ME, MARIAH MONTANA,
since she says it was about Angus' grandson. -Joy
=============== Reply 36 of Note 40 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 01/21
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 8:38 PM
Sherry,
I enjoyed your comments about DANCING AT THE RASCAL
FAIR. I remember when reading about how Varick was such a
help to Angus, I said to myself, "Yes, Varick is young &
has new strength. Angus was older & worn out." I remember
the energy I had when I was in my early thirties. I had 3
preschoolers & still managed to do a full-time
first-grade substituting stint for 4 months straight until
June, & in July we sold our house & moved to a new one. I
don't know where I got all the energy. YOUTH! Yes, 30's was
youth!
And yes, I agree with you that it would have been
kinder if Anna had given Angus no hope. It's always easier
to accept the irrevocable. (Although sometimes even the
irrevocable is difficult to get over. We always play that
"woulda-shoulda" game in our heads.) -Joy
=============== Reply 37 of Note 40 =================
To: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Date: 01/22
From: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Time: 2:40 AM
Carole Iwanaga
DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR was an exceptioally good read.
It had the additional value of filling some gaps in my
limited knowledge of the later settling of this country. I
just had not realized that we were still giving away
homesteads as late as the 1890's. It's probably not fair
too call it a give away though, considering the
backbreaking work that these people had to go through to
make a go of it.
For someone raised on Westerns; film and book, it was
almost a cultural shock to find a time where the sheep men
and cattle men lived near each other without a lot of gun
play. The standard plot usually was based on the fact
that the sheep do not leave grass tall enough for the
cattle to eat. But sheep can eat after cattle leave the
range. Different sets of teeth. Also the cowboys were
always tougher than the sheep men. No gun play in
these pages though; more a story of making do and hard
work. And a lot about plain old luck. Finding Lucas
Barclay for instance seemed more luck than planning. But
then I've always been told that it is better to be lucky
than good.I get the feeling that Mr Doig hasn't done a lot
of the herding of sheep. He is very skimpy on the details
of herding. The little I know about sheep tending is that
the dogs are the most important asset you can have. And
that you always have more than one dog. Usually an older
dog and at least a younger dog who is learning the ropes.
Mr Doig doesn't even mention a dog until near the end of
the book, when the unlucky Davie comes down with the
horrible flu. I used to see the Basque sheepherders up in
the hills when Itraveled north to Ventura. They were
always sitting down, piling rocks (nobody knows why) and
letting the dogs do all the work. The Basque are even
reputed to have some sort of mysterious sixth sense with
their dogs. Anyway I think it should have been an
important part of the McCaskill life. Or could someone use
dogs and have no respect for them as intelligent beings and
partners?
And the most important question of all. What's the
difference between a sheep herder and a shepherd?
Different rungs of the food chain? Worker and owner?
As a non-sequeterious (I made that up)comment, at the
beginning of the book Angus mentions a guide book by a Mr
Crofutt. It's a name that I've encountered only twice.
One gentleman was descended from American Indians and the
other from good old European Polish stock. Just
an odd something stuck on the flypaper of my mind.
Angus is the omly person whose mind is open to us. Or, are
we just reading his memoirs over his shoulder? I'm not
sure about that, but occasionally the author throws in
remembrances of the past using the same words we heard
pages ago in conversation. An interesting stylistic ploy
that I don't recall running into before.
Angus is really a plodder; not too complicated but
trustworthy and strong. He's bigger than Rod Barcley
(which becomes important near the end of the story) and I
wonder if he isn't along as protection, in addition to
friendship? He is pretty much an orphan and is indebted
to Pere Barcley for part of his livelyhood. Rob seemed to
be reasonably financed for this venture. At least there is
no mention of severe money problems, but I got the feeling
that Rob was paying and Angus owed him.
And before I forget it, where was Ellis Island? Wasn't
that place in operation then? Was it just for non-English
types? TO BE CONTINUED
=============== Reply 38 of Note 40 =================
To: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Date: 01/22
From: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Time: 5:42 AM
DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR. continued(2)
Back to Angus. Angus never seems to instigate any actions.
If it wasn't for Rob, Angus would have wound up on the
unemployed rolls in Scotland long before this book ended.
The brief fling with Anna is one of the few things he has
done on his own. But when you consider the lack of
eligible young men, maybe it was Anna who did the choosing.
Angus' obsession of Anna is difficult to fathom.
Certainly most of us have had some unreasonable attraction
for someone . And the disappointment when it is
unrequited is hard to live with. The memory elicits a
furtive smile every once in a while, but this constant
obsessing seems mentally sick. With only small effort the
author could have turned Angus into a stalker. Might have
still have been a good book.
I see nothing wrong in Angus marrying Adair. She's young,
attractive and he knows her from home. The idea that he
has a temporary marriage, until Anna raises her children
and runs out on her husband is more a flight of fantasy
than a real promise. But then who understands this
man/woman thing anyhow?
Adair is the one who is in the most trouble. She doesn't
seem to have been a worker. Her parents are dead and her
only option is America where the head of her
family, Rob, has insisted she go. Angus first refects her
and then rebounds in her direction. It's not the worst
reason to get married. And she may even love him. Or
learn to.
One of her problems is that she is a Scot. And doesn't
want to be an American. She is resentful that she had to
come to America. Throw that in with a little old fashioned
agoraphobia and she is not a happy camper. She slowly
works her way through these problems and winds up being a
good and uselful worker and partner.
But still, I cannot tell if Adair is mentally slow or just
stubborn. We see everything through the eyes of Angus, and
he hasn't a clue either.
The fight between Angus and Rob is an event that I feel is
significant on a couple of levels. The Barcleys are
evidently the town leaders and employers back in old
Nethermuir. The McCaskill's had a history of being
employed by them. Rob is raised in the tradition that he
will lead, and takes it for granted. The Barcleys also
have a tradition that is almost akin to Noblesse Oblige;
they are good to their employees because its the right
thing to do. It is also because they believe the employees
don't have the same intelligence and must be led.
Rob has an obligation to take care of his sister. He is
the head of the family and he does it in a straightforward
manner. With just a small bump on the road to the altar
the sister and the best friend are wed. This does not end
his obligation, it just puts in under one roof. Angus is
still working for the Barcleys and his job is Adair.
When Rob thinks that Adair has been betrayed openly, he
must act for the Barcley name and honor. The friendship is
negated by the betrayal. Even in losing Rob does not
forgive. He is still a Scot and he is living up to his
code.
Angus would neve have fought Rob in Scotland (read
Opinion). He would have lost in court and in everyone's
eyes. His act removes the last ties to the old country.
He is now an American. Adair's defiance of Rob's edicts
show that she also is part of this new land, and will
stick by her husband; no matter the cost.
=============== Reply 39 of Note 40 =================
To: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Date: 01/22
From: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Time: 6:30 AM
Dear Edd,
Very good analysis. I really appreciate your viewpoint,
especially concerning the Rob and Angus fight. I had an
inkling (but did not know how to put it into words) that
there was some leader/follower thing going on, but you
really brought it into focus.
Sherry (to steal gail's phrase) in the wee hours of the
morning
=============== Reply 40 of Note 40 =================
To: WSRF10B SHERRY KELLER Date: 01/22
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 12:30 PM
Dear Edd, loved your reference to your "flypaper mind".
Hope the stickum on yours is more discerning than mine,
which will never forget my phone number in 1940, but forgets
to buy light bulbs at the market.
I'm sure Ellis Island would have been in full operation at
the time of RASCAL. My father came through there in 1914.
Or perhaps it started after the RASCAL time?
Ruth, inland, where it's grey
=============== Reply 41 of Note 40 =================
To: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Date: 01/22
From: FAVB99B JANE NIEMEIER Time: 9:36 PM
Hi Edd,
I, too, enjoyed your analysis. How do you explain Rob's
continuing bitterness, in spite of all the years that have
gone by and all of the hardships that they===============
together? He cannot let it go. I would like to hear a
man's point of view on this. Jane in colorful Colorado.
=============== Reply 42 of Note 40 =================
To: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Date: 01/23
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 10:16 AM
Edd,
Interesting analysis of DATRF! Seems to cover all the
bases. By now, I am so confused, I don't know what to
think! There's a little bit of truth in everyone's opinion.
The best part about it is that we can believe what we want.
Thanks for that thought-provoking post. -Joy
=============== Reply 43 of Note 40 =================
To: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Date: 01/23
From: NCSH82B BARBARA MOORS Time: 8:03 PM
Edd,
Enjoyed your notes about RASCAL FAIR. I had that same
thought about the sheep farmers as opposed to the cattle
men. This sure gave us a different view than those
Westerns we watched as a kid. And, you're right about the
sheepdogs...they are amazing creatures. We had an old
quarter horse once that would do the same thing. We
boarded her at a farmer's who turned her out with his
cattle. When he looked out the window, she had all of them
herded up into a tight bunch. If one dared to poke its
nose out to wander off, she whipped over there and got it
back in the herd again.
Thanks for making the observations about the relationship
of employer to employee in Scotland between Rob and Angus.
Since I didn't get to listen to the first tape in my book
on tape of this, I never did quite understand that side of
their relationship.
And, to everyone who has been pondering Angus'
fascination with Anna, I never quite understood either. I
mean obviously this was incredible chemistry, but it was
hard for me to believe that Angus would cling to this
through all of his hardships, raising a son, etc. I found
it easier to believe Anna. She grew up with a low-energy
father who kept them scrambling to make an income. Then,
she finds Angus who is a dreamer and not really awfully
ambitious. Contrast that to the Dane (sorry, can't
remember his name) who knows how to work hard, focus on a
goal and is probably never going to be poor...her
personality was bound to make that choice. However, why
she kept him hanging *was* a mystery. I think Doig was
implying that she never got over their chemistry either
despite the choice she had to make...but it seemed
incredibly self-centered and cruel to me.
Barb
=============== Reply 44 of Note 40 =================
To: NCSH82B BARBARA MOORS Date: 01/24
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 7:31 AM
Barb,
I think your insight about Anna being more practical
than she was romantic, was a good one. I didn't see it
before, but your explanation is very convincing. And maybe
the Dane was a better lover than Doig let on.
Joy
=============== Reply 45 of Note 40 =================
To: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Date: 01/24
From: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Time: 5:24 PM
Joy,
I figured sexual chemistry had to enter in there. After all,
she reportedly spent the entire summer sleeping with Issac,
so she had to have a pretty good idea of their compatibility
in that area.
Barb, good point about the practical considerations that
guided Anna's choice. Angus was always holding back and
described as waiting and watching. He certainly wasn't a
risk taker. Probably they weren't compatibile in a lot of
ways. I am somewhat surprised, however, that the author
didn't delve into this more himself. So far, no one
who has posted has been that impressed with Angus's undying
love. A major weakness of the novel, maybe?
Ann
=============== Reply 46 of Note 40 =================
To: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Date: 01/24
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 11:14 PM
Ann,
I find your words, "undying love" interesting. So far,
words, like "obsessive love", have been the kind of words
used in our posts to describe Angus' feeling for Anna. It's
interesting to see those two expressions side by side now.
I hesitate to try to state the difference between
undying love & obsessive love. The latter seems to have
more of a sexual connotation. I think it applies to Angus'
love for Anna. But we really don't have enough information
from the book to make a definite judgement. We can only
surmise. Whether that can be called a weakness of the
novel, I don't know. Something to think about. -Joy
=============== Reply 47 of Note 40 =================
To: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Date: 01/24
From: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Time: 11:30 PM
Hmm -- do you think "undying love" sounds acceptably
romantic, whereas "obsessive love" sounds like a
psychological problem? I'm not so sure they are that
different, but it's interesting to think about it.
Ann
=============== Reply 48 of Note 40 =================
To: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Date: 01/25
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 0:34 AM
Ann,
Actually, to me, now that I think about it, there is a
difference between undying love & obsessive love. When I
think of undying love, I think of someone who continues to
treat a loved one with kindness & generosity over a number
of years, despite whether the feeling is fully returned.
Whereas, when I think of obsessive love, it means
constantly thinking of the person who is the object of the
love & wanting always to be interacting with him, one way
or another. How's that for one point of view?
Joy, glad Ann brought the subject up
=============== Reply 49 of Note 40 =================
To: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Date: 01/25
From: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Time: 3:53 AM
DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR continued(3)
In one of her more lucid moments, my mother-in-law
mentioned the time of the flu epidemic. She talked about
all the pigs dying at that time. This was in Iowa and the
flu seemed to take at least one person from every family
in that little Iowa town. It was called a swine flu as I
recall. Also called the Spanish flu. Has anybody heard if
this flu affected sheep?
A couple of historical events were passed over, and may
have added something to the flavor of the story. The fall
of Custer occurred in Montana just before the book starts.
I would have thought that a couple of green kids from
Scotland would be aware of something that dramatic. The
Spanish American War was in the 1890's, and Teddy Roosevelt
drew a lot of people from this type area for his Rough
Riders. Surely someone would have jumped at the chance for
glory.
Anna was never seen, except through the eyes of Angus. And
Angus tended to see only what he wanted to see. She's
healthy and plays the field. Even though Isaac has won her
hand, Angus takes her words of parting as an invitation.
The words that use "if" are meant to be a polite way of
telling Angus that he came in second. AT least she didn't
say they could always be friends. There aren't enough
women around so that Angus can get used to being dumped.
Adding to this also, the author cheats on his portrayal of
Isaac. Isaac, who marries Anna, has an almost
unintelligible accent. Undoubtedly so that we can tell
automatically that he isn't romantic material. The Scots
on the otherhand are intelligible throughout. Not fair
play.
Barbed wire plays a part in the story. Unlike other
Westerns, it isn't always bad. Varic finds the fence line
from the top strands of barbed wire. Was it Diamond Jim
Brady who made his fortune selling the wire?
Varic and the Ranger are the same character with two names.
They come right out of a Zane Grey novel. Tall, quiet, and
ever so resourceful. It is a nice touch that Varic
rescues his father and uncle.
Nancy or Buffalo Calf Speaks, was never given any
importance as a character. Possibly because the author
doesn't do well with female characters. It was interesting
that in the will she was left with an "annuity"
administered by the local banker. Because she was Indian
or because she was a woman? But in case anyone thinks the
world has changed, I saw a similar happening where one of
our engineers left everything to his brothers, so that they
could take care of his wife.
Edd Houghton
=============== Reply 50 of Note 40 =================
To: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Date: 01/25
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 9:34 AM
Edd,
You are always thinking. Interesting post.
Joy, history major who wishes that she had majored in
English & literature instead...
=============== Reply 51 of Note 40 =================
To: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Date: 01/25
From: NCSH82B BARBARA MOORS Time: 7:26 PM
I kept wondering if Doig really believed in this love of
Angus' for Anna, if he was portraying this as something
positive or if he saw it as a flaw in Angus. If it was a
flaw, it would fit with the rest of Angus'
personality...wanting something that he couldn't have to
the point that it endangered other things in his life.
This is the kind of love that would have appealed to me
when I was 18, but with life and experience, it seems
hopelessly unlikely and immature. Part of me wonders how I
ever got so terminally grown-up as to be so impatient with
Angus...and the other part of me wants to shake him (like
the Brookner characters discussed in another thread.)
In any case, if that's where Doig was headed, it's not a
weakness of the novel, but part of the character of Angus.
Barb
=============== Reply 52 of Note 40 =================
To: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Date: 01/25
From: TQWX67A ANN DAVEY Time: 11:39 PM
Edd,
Great comments, especially those noting that Anna was just
telling Angus politely that he had come in second and your
observation that Varick and the ranger were the same
character with different names. Your posts always make me
smile, but there is also a lot of truth in them. Glad you
read this book too.
Ann
=============== Reply 1 of Note 1 =================
To: ALL Date: 02/09
From: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Time: 4:10 AM
DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR continued (4)
Robert Burns Barclay is (to me) the most interesting
character in the book. Even more interesting than his
uncle Lucas. But the interesting parts of his life occur
off the pages. It is something that a few authors do, and
do well. Some of my favorite characters are mostly off the
page: Jett Rink in Edna Ferber's GIANT comes to mind
immediately. In fact she does that also in CIMMARON (sp?)
where the husband of the heroine goes off stage, being an
explorer in Alaska, soldier of fortune and finally dying on
the battlefield in Europe. Some other characters that you
don't get to meet directly: Dr Moriarty in the Sherlock
Holmes stories; his copy, Dr Fu Manchu in the Sax Rohmer
series. Wasn't the hero named Naismith?
But in DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR, almost everything that
happens is a direct result of Rob's dream, his business
sense; his vision of the future. In a word, Rob is a
businessman, and a hellof a good one at that. Unlike a lot
of entrepreneurs Rob is also a good worker. And a
craftsman. Even in their days of discontent Angus would
rather have Rob tie the knots in the rope that will
maintain the lifeline with Varic in the snowstorm.
The death of Rob upset me greatly. To me he was cast more
in a heroic mode. His saving of the young man with
subsequent loss of sheep, showed that he would give up
profit for a human life. There was nothing in the story
that would lead me to believe that Rob would make that last
decision to keep the sheep, seemingly just for spite. It
grated on my sensibilities when I read and it rings uuntrue
now.
Ray Bradbury once wrote a story where time is changed
so that Hemingway could have died with the snow leopard on
the side of Mt Kilimanjaro, and not in mental anguish.
Like Bradbury's story, Rob should not have have died
ignobly. But still it's the author's story.
I can only think of one reason for Rob to remain so bitter
for such a long period of time. The beating he took at the
hands of Angus. That was a bitter pill for Rob, and
truthfully seemed like an over-reaction for Angus,
especially since he was the bigger man, and should have
been able to stop the fight whenever he chose.
Edd Houghton who thoroughly enjoyed this book.
=============== Reply 3 of Note 1 =================
To: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Date: 02/10
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 4:50 PM
Edd,
I too was disappointed in the ending of DANCING AT THE
RASCAL FAIR. I don't think I will ever understand what made
Rob turn into such a bitter person. Surely, something MUST
have occurred "off the pages" that we don't know about. Is
that what you meant by "off the pages?" Certainly there was
nothing ON the pages that could make me thoroughly
understand his bitterness. -Joy
=============== Reply 4 of Note 1 =================
To: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Date: 02/12
From: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Time: 4:20 AM
Joy Huott
I think that often, writers use true incidents to set up
their stories, but they don't always have knowledge of
cause and affect. And that is their job, to weave a story
that creates a logical cause and affect. My guess is that
there was a "real life Angus" and a "real life Rob", two
Scots who were business partners in Montana. There
partnership was broken at sometime, and "Rob" died in an
extremely tragic horse accident. The details of having a
snow-boot caught in the stirrup seems too horrible to have
made up.
What happened "off the page" of DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR
for us may also have happened "off the page" of history for
the author, Mr Doig.
Edd Houghton
=============== Reply 5 of Note 1 =================
To: FBED59A EDWARD HOUGHTON Date: 02/12
From: XJKD19F JOY HUOTT Time: 7:12 AM
Edd,
That's an interesting theory. I am always impressed by
people who have imaginations great enough to think up
wonderful story plots. And I do often wonder how much is
imagination & how much is drawn from real life. In most
cases we will never know. I suppose the writers with the
best imaginations are the most prolific writers.
Joy
=============== Reply 6 of Note 1 =================
To: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Date: 02/12
From: QGEE61A JULIE GERHART Time: 10:45 PM
You said that you like pioneer novels? I do, too. I find
O! Pioneers and My Antonia (both by Willa Cather) to be
fabulous novels. In O! Pioneers, the extraordinary heroine,
Alex, is fabulous. She is the head of her family, something
so rare among pioneers.
Julie
=============== Reply 7 of Note 1 =================
To: QGEE61A JULIE GERHART Date: 02/13
From: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Time: 10:52 AM
Hi Julie, I read MY ANTONIA and O PIONEERS and liked them
very much. One (two, actually) of my favorite pioneer books,
by BESS STREETER ALDRICH: A LANTERN IN HER HAND and A WHITE
BIRD FLYING. I also loved the trilogy by CONRAD RICHTER:
THE AWAKENING LAND, which contains the books THE TREES, THE
FIELDS, and THE TOWN (which won the Pulitzer Prize). I read
books like that and find myself becoming more aware of how
lucky we are to have the conveniences we enjoy and take for
granted.
carole, who needs to be reminded of that once in a while
=============== Reply 8 of Note 1 =================
To: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Date: 02/13
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 3:42 PM
Carole, I read Richter's THE TREES quite some time ago.
Don't remember what was in it now, but I do remember liking
it.
Ruth, south of you, on a beautiful blue day
=============== Reply 9 of Note 1 =================
To: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Date: 02/13
From: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Time: 7:09 PM
Ruth, Maybe this will remind you. The main character of the
book was Sayward (pronounced sayard). She and her family
pioneered in the (ohio?) woods. I remember her mother
suffered from some sort of tree phobia or madness and died
pretty early on in the story. A couple of years ago I
caught a bit of the miniseries that was made from the book.
Sayward was played by Elizabeth Montgomery, who was a very
fine actress, but miscast, in my opinion. I've read that
trilogy twice and just love it.
carole, in Northern Calif where spring has arrived!
=============== Reply 10 of Note 1 =================
To: AJXR61B CAROLE IWANAGA Date: 02/13
From: KDEX08B RUTH BAVETTA Time: 10:18 PM
Aha! Carole, you've jogged my memory. I remember I liked
the book so much I made a point of watching the TV movie.
Oh my, 'tis such a quandary rather to reread a good one or
plow on to the new.
Ruth, who's been doing spring garden cleanup
|
Ivan Doig
Doig
certainly has his own style - as Joy already commented, he
excellently captured the rhythms of speech and thoughts of
his characters, most particularly the men.
Joe B.
DANCING AT THE RASCAL FAIR was an exceptionally good read. It had the additional value of filling some gaps in my
limited knowledge of the later settling of this country.
Edd
|
