Without warning, giant silver ships from deep space appear in the skies above every major city on Earth. Manned by the Overlords, in fifty years, they eliminate ignorance, disease, and poverty. Then this golden age ends--and then the age of Mankind begins....
Clarke has the science of Asimov but can write prose as pretty as Bradbury's. This book contains some poignant passages and images which will probably resonate with you for the rest of your mortal existence. This classic work will shift your worldview and, somehow, make you both look forward with anticipation as well as abject fear of humanity's possible future.
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (1 of 58), Read 71 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse wk4@qwest.net
Date:
Tuesday, August 07, 2001 02:36 PM
I can recall reading one science fiction work in my life. I did
read Dune somewhere between 1976 and 1980. Dune
qualifies, doesn't it? I read several of The Martian Chronicles
by Edgar Rice Burroughs when I was a youngster. That is
more in the genre known as "fantasy" though, is it not? Oh,
shoot! I forgot the other Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury.
In general though, I dunno. Brilliant but socially inept loners
with spectacle lenses like the bottoms of coke bottles;
pocket protectors filled with multi-colored pens and
mechanical pencils; gape-mouthed with moist, protruberant
lower lips; sitting around dreaming up goofy shit and
recording it in the most egregiously stultified prose. And a
bunch of geek readers going gaga over the great gizmos.
"Oh, wow! Neato!"
Gawd. Perish the thought.
Which brings me to Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke. This
is a startling little book. Not stylistically. Not by virtue of the
characterizations. Not for any of the reasons most of us
read fiction. Well worth the time though. I think it has as
much of importance in it as, say, Brave New World by Huxley.
I will say nothing of substance about the story since the
inaugural date for the discussion is still eight days away. As
he has demonstrated in all of his endeavors, this Arthur C.
Clarke is obviously scary brilliant. He is off the charts.
I don't mean to say that the book is a difficult read. Quite
the contrary. I mean. . . .well, those who undertake it will
see what I mean. It has to do with the copyright date.
1953.
Steve
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (22 of 58), Read 45 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Daniel LeBoeuf dan1066@yahoo.com
Date:
Saturday, August 11, 2001 06:53 PM
In a recent printing of this novel, Clarke states in the
preface:
I have therefore decided to bring the narrative forward into the
next century, and was halfway through this task when, on the
20th anniversary of Apollo 11, it was announced that Mars is
now one of the goals of the United States space programme.
I confess this makes me edgy--how much did he update?
While he could have kept his social arrangements (that was
a utopia envisioned by others as well as him), he may have
added the oral conceptive and DNA paternity in to just
provide support to one of his main themes. I hate to
question one of my favorite writers, but let's make sure he
was prescient and not gifted with enough longevity to tinker
with his work over the years.
The idea of "updating" just bothers me immensely. Ooooh, I
don't like it, don't like it at all...
Dan
It's OK--they're all smoking!
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (23 of 58), Read 44 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Ian Marks comfortably_numb@ecosse.net
Date:
Saturday, August 11, 2001 06:56 PM
I finished it the other day. I know what my initial reaction is.
Be interesting to hear those of others.
Ian
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (24 of 58), Read 41 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Saturday, August 11, 2001 07:07 PM
By "updating" do you mean that there are editions that
differ from each other, Dan?
I have 1953. A pretty good year, I think.
Ruth, Canoga Park High School, Winter '53
"Nobody belongs to us, except in memory." John Updike
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (25 of 58), Read 45 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Saturday, August 11, 2001 08:19 PM
I have a new edition, specially for this reading, and it says
only Chapter 1 has been modified -- chiefly, if I recall
correctly, by inserting a reference to Armstrong on the moon
and something about the Mars exploration program.
And, without getting to the story, I was interested by the
cover blurb that calls Clarke "the greatest living science
fiction author". Even allowing for editorial hyperbole, I think
he clearly ranks way up there by most measuring standards.
Given that, what does this say about science fiction as a
literary genre? Can it be said to be literary in any
substantial sense at all?
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to mow your
own lawn." -- Dick Haggart
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (26 of 58), Read 46 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Lynn Isvik washualum@yahoo.com
Date:
Saturday, August 11, 2001 09:19 PM
Gee, Ruth, I always thought 1953 was special for another
reason... it was the year of my debut on this earth :-)
Lynn
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (27 of 58), Read 42 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Saturday, August 11, 2001 11:09 PM
I finished this today and really hope y'all can clear up some
points for me. There was quite a bit I did not understand,
but I can't get more specific without spoiling the story for
those who haven't finished.
Beej
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (28 of 58), Read 43 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Saturday, August 11, 2001 11:10 PM
I was born in '53 also.
I have the '53 edition. There is no preface but on the page
with the publication details (does it have a name?), I noticed
a brief disclaimer, "The opinions expressed in this novel are
not hose of the author." This raises the question: whose
are they?
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (29 of 58), Read 43 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Saturday, August 11, 2001 11:14 PM
Dean , I have the '53 edition, too, but it doesn't say that in
mine. I wonder why it was added.
Beej
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (30 of 58), Read 42 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Saturday, August 11, 2001 11:16 PM
Thanks, Beej. This is very curious.
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (31 of 58), Read 42 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Saturday, August 11, 2001 11:23 PM
Dean, I just did a quick search on Clarke to see if there was
any controversy over the contents of this book at the time
of original publication, but didn't find anything.
This is really puzzling.
Beej
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (32 of 58), Read 49 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Lynn Isvik washualum@yahoo.com
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 12:13 AM
The prologue to the newer printing (1990) answers that
question. Clarke says "When Childhood's End first appeared,
many readers were baffled by a statement after the title
page to the effect that "The opinions expressed in this book
are not those of the author." This was not entirely
facetious; I had just published The Exploration of Space and
painted an optimistic picture of our future expansion into the
Universe. Now I had written a book which said "The stars
are not for Man," and did not want anyone to think I had
suddenly recanted."
Lynn
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (33 of 58), Read 52 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 12:27 AM
Thank you, Lynn. That was really bothering me.
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (34 of 58), Read 40 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dottie Randall randallj@ix.netcom.com
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 02:49 AM
Ruth -- I had read the first bit of this before tangling up in
McCarthy and so read it again from the first -- I struggled
through the first few pages -- and slowed down in Part Two
again -- but finished Part Two last night -- into the
homestretch! Keep reading. Just when I think I see an
indication of where this is going -- it shifts again.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (35 of 58), Read 42 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dottie Randall randallj@ix.netcom.com
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 07:06 AM
Well -- got up and started in on the last section -- Jim has
departed on his own for the 25th Anniversary Sanicole
International Airshow -- and I had polished this off before
he left shortly after noon here. I'm waiting patiently -- and
will try to digest some of this before discussion begins.
And - Steve - I think this is the only true science fiction I've
ever read. I could be proven wrong but I do know sci-fi
labeled works are not high on my exploration list. I even
meant to get hold of Dune and read it with Jonathan and CR
folk here -- and then didn't - tsk-tsk.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (36 of 58), Read 47 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 07:14 AM
It was hard to read this book without keeping a kind of
scorecard.
*He got that one right.
*That one is a little off.
*Boy, did he get that one right.
The one that he really got wrong was religion. Since things
were being explained by The Overlords scientifically, then
religion's hold on people's mind and imagination was
weakened. I don't think that Clarke foresaw that element of
religious fanaticism that rejects scientific explanations by
saying "that's the devil's work." Or was religion doing that in
1953, too?
Sherry
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (37 of 58), Read 39 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Candy Minx
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 11:02 AM
It depends on which religion you are asking about Sherry. I
know there are a few religious factions that do believe that
science is the work of the devil. And some of them are
archaic religions. Some are recent like the quakers, but I am
not sure if all say devil. now devil as opposed to evil? Or
unacceptable? I could guess by devil then you mean
particular Christian religions. ???? but most Christians
benefit and enjoy all the results of science/military. So much
of our daily lives comfort is from inventions and off shoots of
science and military discoveries.
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (38 of 58), Read 40 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 12:08 PM
I guess several religions have their version of this
phenomenon, but an example of what I'm talking about is
this: my parents' religion does not believe that dinosaurs
really existed because 1) they are not mentioned in the
Bible, and 2) their dates do not correlate to the number of
years ago their "scholars" say that Earth was created. They
believe that dinosaur bones were placed on Earth by the
devil to create a lack of faith. Now I don't think that having
the Overlords prove stuff would have made them any more
rational. Rationality doesn't enter into some people's beliefs.
So that part of Clarke's prediction hasn't come about.
Sherry
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (39 of 58), Read 43 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 12:11 PM
Why I may throw in the towel on this one is the writing. It's
pretty awful. TomSwiftian in some places, she said,
menacingly. And the dialog is as stilted as a bad 1940s
movie, she said, grouchily. People don't converse, they give
speeches, she said, crabbily. Ideas may be interesting, but if
they're not couched in good prose, they're a chore to
read,she said, sadly.
Ruth
"Nobody belongs to us, except in memory." John Updike
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (40 of 58), Read 43 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 12:14 PM
Maybe I have no taste, she said optimistically, but I enjoyed
it. I used to read books like this a lot, so I guess what you
call stilted language just goes over my head.
Sherry
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (41 of 58), Read 43 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 12:30 PM
I admit that the older I get, the fussier I get.
Ruth
"Nobody belongs to us, except in memory." John Updike
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (42 of 58), Read 43 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 12:39 PM
Try to overlook the writing, because I'd be really interested
in seeing what you think of his ideas.
Sherry
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (43 of 58), Read 45 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Lynn Isvik washualum@yahoo.com
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 12:40 PM
I think that religion is just one area where Clarke tends to
gloss over or treat lightly some very major cultural changes.
In fact, he doesn't spend all that much time explaining how
the earth went through the major changes it did between
the arrival of the Overlords and the time of Jan, Rupert, the
Greggsons, etc.
Lynn
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (44 of 58), Read 49 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 02:12 PM
In a radio interview, Clarke said that he was not religious,
yet Overmind, seems to me to be a version of God.
He contradicts himself within the novel as well. On the one
hand, he tells us that Jan "knows" that NGS 549672 is the
home of the Overlords without having been there to confirm
it. Yet, he makes a point of confirming every one of Jeff's
dreams with the empirical observations of Rashaverak to
Karellen.
Dean
Tempus optimus doctor est.
Male, omnes discipulos semper interficit.
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (45 of 58), Read 51 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 03:20 PM
Dean, I saw the Overmind as a version of God too, and
even, for awhile, thought perhaps Jean was a modern
version of Mary, George of Joseph and Jeff of Jesus.
Beej
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (46 of 58), Read 34 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Ian Marks comfortably_numb@ecosse.net
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 04:33 PM
>>Dean, I saw the Overmind as a version of God too<<
Dean & Beej ~~
This never entered my head. I must be thick.
Ian
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (47 of 58), Read 27 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Jane Niemeier jniemeie@hotmail.com
Date:
Sunday, August 12, 2001 08:59 PM
Dan,
The edition of the book that I read is from 1953. I got it at
our school library before summer break (which is over
tomorrow, by the way - boo hoo!). The passage about the
oral contraceptives and the testing of paternity is in this
edition. Clarke forgot about teenagers when he wrote that
this would do away with unwanted pregnancies. He forgot
about raging hormones and not thinking beyond the next 10
minutes. If you ask a pregnant girl why she didn't practice
birth control, she will probably say that it takes away the
romance. Ha.
Jane
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (48 of 58), Read 25 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 07:03 AM
Jane, I think that ties in with the religion, in a way. Clarke
expected people to act rationally with the proper
knowledge.
Sherry
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (49 of 58), Read 25 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 10:40 AM
Interesting that he had all creative activity screech to a halt.
Yet at the same time people were more educated than ever,
and took classes all their lives. I always thought these kind
of went hand in hand.
I finished last night. My overall perception of the book is that
the writing is pedestrian. The plot picked up in the middle
and I got really interested, then when the touchy-feely stuff
came in, I zoned out.
Ruth
Ruth
"Nobody belongs to us, except in memory." John Updike
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (50 of 58), Read 19 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Sherry Keller shkell@starband.net
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 11:23 AM
I think he may have had a point about the creativity. Since
there was no adversity in people's lives, they may not have
felt compelled to be creative. Things were taken care of for
them. This may not always happen, but I do think it's human
nature to look for new solutions to problems, or to be
expressive in new ways, when they bump up against
insoluble problems.
Sherry
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (51 of 58), Read 20 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dottie Randall randallj@ix.netcom.com
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 11:24 AM
There was touchy-feely stuff in there? Hmmm -- did I blink?
You can elaborate on that later for me if you will, please.
I think I agree that it was somewhat pedestrian but the
ideas are intriguing. I'm digesting a bit before jumping in on
this one.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (52 of 58), Read 21 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 11:27 AM
Well, what do you call it, Dottie? All the stuff about the
Overmind, and ESP and the 'greater consciousness.' You
know that always brings out my eye-glazing propensities. :)
Ruth
"Nobody belongs to us, except in memory." John Updike
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (53 of 58), Read 22 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dottie Randall randallj@ix.netcom.com
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 11:34 AM
Oh -- THAT stuff -- I don't know what I call that stuff -- but
yeah -- it sometimes makes my eyes glaze over, too, though
I am more open to it than some people (not indicating you
here, Ruth -- honestly not) because I've had some odd
experiences myself -- I tend to define my experiences and
the conclusions I have reached concerning them "spiritual"
and this other stuff including much para-normal
mumbo-jumbo and reincarnation and past lives and such --
is something "other". I think lots of pop psychology falls into
this touchy-feely arena and is worth zilch. Okay -- later.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (54 of 58), Read 22 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 11:38 AM
Did anyone else catch the reference to Flatland? When the
kid is zipping around in his 'dreams?'
I'm wondering if the other worlds/universes/whatevers he
'visited' were also references to famous fictional places.
Maybe some of the sf readers here can help me out.
And Sherry, I agree that some creativity has to do with
practical problem-solving, but don't you think that much of it,
particularly in art/music/lit, has to do with exploring the
human psyche, and our place in the
world/universe/humanity, etc?
Ruth
"Nobody belongs to us, except in memory." John Updike
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (55 of 58), Read 13 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dottie Randall randallj@ix.netcom.com
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 12:19 PM
Geez -- I sounded flip there -- wasn't my intent at all, at all
-- I guess touchy-feely to me is always sort of the knowing
yourself and I'm OK You're OK and stuff like that while these
other things fell into a general para-normal umbrella -- and I
do, as I said, have a different category for spiritual
experiences which others can and do lump in with the
para-normal stuff. Maybe some people would say I'm fooling
myself with that approach -- I don't really believe I am.
I read and reread all those dreams of Jeffrey's wondering
the same thing sort of -- trying to make the descriptions and
the experiences fit into things read or heard in conjunction
with para-normal and other fields over the years. Of course,
the chance I'd read or paid any attention to anything which
may have served as a model for Clarke's segments on
Jeffrey's dreams is remote since this was published when I
was in the third grade and precocious reader though I was
-- I wasn't reading Clarke's Childhood's End then {G} nor
studying paranormal current events and so forth!
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (56 of 58), Read 10 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 12:27 PM
You missed my point, Dottie. I wasn't trying to connect the
paranormal gobbledegook with anything I've read. I was
wondering about the locations Jeff went to in his dreams.
Flatland posited a world in which everything was
2-dimensional, no 3rd dimension existed. When Clarke has
Jeff 'visit' such a world, I presumed it was a direct homage
to Flatland, which was written in the late 1800s.
So I was wondering if any of the other places Jeff went to in
his dreams were also references to other famous SF
locations, which I might not have recognized.
Ruth
"Nobody belongs to us, except in memory." John Updike
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (57 of 58), Read 3 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dottie Randall randallj@ix.netcom.com
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 12:45 PM
Okay. But those "dreams" weren't really dreams in this story
-- they were para-normal time travels into other worlds -- so
I guess I'm not following why the locations would
necessarily be non-para-normal -- Obviously Flatland was
not a very "real" place in the sense of our own world. I still
wonder along with you about the other locations and
experiences being in other works as you suggest.
Dottie
ID is an oxymoron!
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (58 of 58), Read 7 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse wk4@qwest.net
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 12:39 PM
I made a valiant attempt to warn everyone about the
nature of this writing in the first note:
This is a startling little book. Not stylistically. Not by virtue of
the characterizations. Not for any of the reasons most of us
read fiction. Well worth the time though. I think it has as much
of importance in it as, say, Brave New World by Huxley.
I used the word "fable" earlier in reference to this book, and
I'm sticking with that. As a fable it's worth arises out of it's
conception not its execution. The conception was brilliant, I
thought.
I'm not so sure that he was so far off on the religious angle,
Sherry. There were actually two things at work here--not
only the rational scientific approach but also, the fact that
life had been made so easy. One of the major reasons for
religion is as a psychological strategy for dealing with the
difficulty of life, is it not? This idea was also related to the
loss of creativity, too.
A small aspect of the story that interested me was the
physical form assumed by the Overlords. Apparently, they
had given a great deal of thought to how they should best
appear to humanity. They came up with a form that looked
very much like a cartoon Devil--little horns, a tail with a
point, etc. What's with that?
Steve
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (49 of 83), Read 86 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 01:03 PM
I didn't get that the Overlords were created in the satanic
image specifically for service on earth, but rather that they
had been selected for this duty because of their
evolutionary short-comings (they couldn't transcend to the
'next level'), and that ancient humans, through some
unspecified kind of ur-consciousness, had developed
foreknowledge that when these hoofed, winged, horned
critters arrived, humanity would be in big trouble. From this
racial fore-knowledge, the entire web of superstition and
religion about the devil, etc. arose: kind of a mental Klein
Bottle, if you will (which is how time-travel, or as here, 'out
of time consciousness' always tends to work out, in my
opinion).
Anyway, I hadn't read this book in at least 35 years,
probably more and was amazed at how unimpressed I was
by it here in the late summer of my years. As various folks
have noted the writing is painfully uninteresting and the
characterizations non-existent -- all is sacrificed on the altar
of 'big and imaginative ideas'. When I was a kid, that was a
sufficient basis not only to entertain, but to mesmerize.
Unfortunately, it no longer is.
I was put in mind of the literary device of deus ex machina
during this reading --the plot device where some
unexpected, completely out-of-the-blue event rescues a
character in peril or resolves some apparently
insurmountable problem. The term is taken from the old
Greek plays, where a god would, literally, be lowered from
the ceiling into the middle of a play (via lifts or pulleys --
hence 'machine'), there to make mischief or a miracle, but in
any event to appear as 'god from machine' and turn human
events on their ear within the play.
There is much deus ex machina going on in Childhood's End,
and, in the end, it seems to me that in this case (and in
much sci-fi generally) the device has essentially become the
entire story itself: one startling revelation after another,
essentially unconnected by character or plotline
development, except as they exist within the various, serial
miracle events.
And, as Steve noted way back up there: no sex. No wonder
the human race died out.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to mow your
own lawn." -- Dick Haggart
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (50 of 83), Read 102 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 02:32 PM
Dottie, I know those 'dreams' were supposed to be
paranormal travels. My question had nothing to do with that
idea.
My question had to do with Clark's having paid homage to
earlier SF writers by making the descriptions of the worlds
Jeff 'visited' match descriptions in earlier SF works.
So, can anybody help me with this? Is there homage to
other SF "worlds," or did Clark just plan steal Flatland?
Ruth
"Nobody belongs to us, except in memory." John Updike
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (51 of 83), Read 102 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 02:54 PM
And Dick, you did a pretty good job in summing up the book.
Ruth
"Nobody belongs to us, except in memory." John Updike
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (52 of 83), Read 106 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse wk4@qwest.net
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 03:11 PM
Dick, I think our somewhat differing reactions to the book
are the result of the very different expectations we brought
to it. My expectations were low as low can be, and I ended
by being entertained.
You have refreshed my recollection about the form taken by
the Overlords. You're quite right. There was discussion of
time bending around in a circle in connection with this racial
memory thing. As for me I am not ready yet to make the
mental move from Möbius Rings to Klein Bottles, however.
The thesis that man is in no way adequately equipped for
space I thought was pretty fascinating.
Even more interesting though was the twist put on the
traditional Christian ideas about the end of the world and
ultimate union with God. The Revelations thing. In the
Christian scheme there will only be a small elite who are
resurrected and then taken to God's bosom--the saved.
However, there is a human logic to that.
At the end of Clarke's world there is a small elite who are
melded into the Overmind's mind--the children. Everyone
else is left to oblivion. There is a more cosmic than human
logic to that, which seems to comport better with other cold
cosmic phenomenon that we have already observed. The
Overmind is blithely unaware of our piddly little human ideas
of justice.
Steve
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (53 of 83), Read 108 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse wk4@qwest.net
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 03:18 PM
I admit that the high end Ouija Board plot device was a little
weak though.
Steve
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (54 of 83), Read 115 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 03:56 PM
Is this fable trying to tell us that reasoning will make the
world boring and that one-mindedness, which I took to be
believing, will destroy us and the world? Jan, then, becomes
the ideal having found a meaning for his life as the mediator
between the two.
Dean
In all knowledge there is error. In every belief there is a
wish.
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (55 of 83), Read 61 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Jonathan Metts jonathan@planetgamecube.com
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 05:11 PM
I read this book back in the spring, after Dale recommended
it so highly. I wasn't as impressed as some of you were, but
I wasn't as disappointed as others. It was very much in
tune with the other bit of Clarke I've read...2001: A Space
Odyssey. Bold, sweeping ideas and concepts; bland, lifeless
storytelling. Kubrick had the good fortune of Clarke's ideas
and his own directing talent, which is why the 2001 movie is
so damn great and well-rounded. I would've liked to have
seen a film version of this book as well.
The most interesting part to me was the secrecy around the
Overlords' true form, and then the unveiling of it after all
those years. I thought Clarke handled it all pretty cleverly,
and I certainly never would have thought to make aliens
look like Satan. ;-)
Anybody know where Dale is? I know this is one of his
favorite books...
Jonathan
Published daily at PlanetGameCube.com
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (56 of 83), Read 59 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 05:12 PM
The idea that technological development will cause either a
holocaust or the decline of humans into indolent
lotus-eaters has been a regular theme in sci-fi from H.G.
Wells to Robert Heinlein (and undoubtedly subsequently,
since early 70's Heinlein is where I pretty much gave up on
the genre). Generally speaking, sci-fi is not a medium for the
consideration of the middle-ground of possibilities, although
there are exceptions. I'm thinking here of the famous Dick
novel (not me, the other one) Do Androids Dream of Electric
Sheep? which was ultimately made into the movie
Bladerunner and Neuromancer by William Gibson, to name
two very famous examples.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to mow your
own lawn." -- Dick Haggart
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (57 of 83), Read 45 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Ian Marks comfortably_numb@ecosse.net
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 05:58 PM
>>As various folks have noted the writing is painfully
uninteresting and the characterizations non-existent<<
Dick ~~
Phew! Thank goodness I'm not alone! Could I just add that,
on the evidence of Childhood's End, Clarke just cannot write
dialogue.
Ian
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (58 of 83), Read 50 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 09:16 PM
I have a question..what was the purpose for including
Stormgren's kidnapping? I just don't see what it had to do
with any of the story.
Beej
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (59 of 83), Read 48 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 09:34 PM
The entire Stormgren portion of the story is a bridge to get
you from the 'Look out! Flying saucers!' point to where the
real action commences. The kidnapping allows some room to
explore the capabilities of the saucer-people and kind of
build the tension about what their real intentions may be. It
also gives a slightly right-wing jab at underground, secret
movements (recall how the 'real' leaders of the underground
are compared to post-revolutionary Leninists) in opposition
to wise and provident central authority -- not too surprising
in a book written as the McCarthy-style hysteria was
beginning to really get going in the United States. The
message: perilous times, call for a firm hand from above,
and wise leaders to administer that firm hand. Americans of
1953 would respond well to such a message, particularly
since we were undergoing our own saucer invasion at the
time.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to mow your
own lawn." -- Dick Haggart
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (60 of 83), Read 48 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 09:57 PM
Ahhhh..okay, I see.
Thanks, Dick.
Also, if everything was so ideal, why was New Athens
created? There is no more ignorance or disease or poverty,
and yet people seem so deeply unsatisfied.
The New Athens guide says: "The reasons (for this
dissatisfaction) are obvious. There's nothing left to struggle
for." By this time the world had become placid. Nothing new
was being created.
Wasn't that the true death of humanity?
Beej
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (61 of 83), Read 42 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 11:17 PM
There is sooo much I just don't understand and feel dumb
for asking, but I will anyway.
Was the Overmind's existence dependant on assimilating
these minds? I mean, if he didn't do this, would he (it?)
perish? And if not, why was it happening?
Does the book tell why? if so, I missed it.
(not a rare thing for me to do.)
Beej
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (62 of 83), Read 40 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 11:20 PM
Social Darwinism is being saluted here , I think. Fairly
popular in the sci-fi I read and recall. Again, related to the
major underlying theme of the age in 1953: in capitalist
societies, the citizens advance by competitive effort and the
ablest and most capable rise to the top. If there is no
contest, if the struggle is eliminated, society will sink into
stagnation. Cf. 'Worker's Paradise'. That was certainly not
Clarke's express message, but I think it was a major part of
his implied message, not because he intended it so much,
but because it was an integral part of the social milieu in
which he was writing at the time.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to mow your
own lawn." -- Dick Haggart
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (63 of 83), Read 42 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 11:24 PM
Beej: Your last question slipped in there. I don't think the
question you ask was addressed at any level I can see by
Clarke. I'd just think of the 'overmind' like one of those giant
Whale Sharks on the Discovery Channel -- cruising along,
sucking up all the little plankton and fish along the way, and
with a mental process about as fathomable. And we readers
are like the divers in those programs -- swimming along
side, stroking the flanks of the great beast and muttering
"Gee, whiz!" through our mouthpieces, but not really having
much of a clue about what's really going on.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to mow your
own lawn." -- Dick Haggart
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (64 of 83), Read 41 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Monday, August 13, 2001 11:48 PM
Thanks again, Dick. This is really beginning to fascinate me.
Beej
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (65 of 83), Read 41 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 11:14 AM
I kept wondering why the Overlords weren't stagnating
and, as a result, dying as a civilization, since they were no
longer creating or evolving as a species. And then I went
back and re-read a little bit toward the end.
Karellen tells Jan the Overlords are captive to the Overmind,
that they have no choice. But they still have a dream of
someday being released from this captivity. So they watch
and study what has happened, in hopes of discovering a
clue that will free them.
So they are not mere puppets and are definitely not
stagnating..They are fighting for the survival of their
species.
Beej
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (66 of 83), Read 38 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse wk4@qwest.net
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 12:05 PM
Please don't be bashful about questions concerning the
layout here, Beej. I confess that I was a little fuzzy on the
whole situation with the Overlords and the Overmind, too.
Steve
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (67 of 83), Read 29 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Jonathan Metts jonathan@planetgamecube.com
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 04:50 PM
I got the impression that the Overmind isn't a conscious
collective being that goes around sucking up species, but
rather the final destination of these various species (except
the Overlords). When the humans matured to a certain
extent, they left their bodies and joined the Overmind
naturally...I don't think the Overmind was just passing by
and decided to scoop us up before moving along. This was
going to happen...it was always going to happen. It was the
destiny, the future of our race, as long as we didn't destroy
ourselves first (which is where the Overlords came in).
Jonathan
Published daily at PlanetGameCube.com
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (68 of 83), Read 31 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse wk4@qwest.net
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 05:36 PM
Excellent, Jonathan. Thank you.
And again, what Clarke has done is put a frightening twist
on the traditional and comforting Christian view of our
ultimate resurrection and union with the Big Guy Upstairs.
Steve
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (69 of 83), Read 31 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 05:51 PM
I think I saw it more as a version of physical evolution than
of purely religious transfiguration, but I could well be
misreading.
Was the Overmind the end-all, be-all as suggested by
Jonathan? I don't recall that being stated expressly; I
thought it was kind of open-ended, with the possibility that
"it's Overturtles, all the way down!" All I got was that the
Overmind was the 'next level', but not that it was
necessarily the 'last level'.
Possibly not important to the overall story, one way or the
other.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to mow your
own lawn." -- Dick Haggart
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (70 of 83), Read 33 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 06:00 PM
Dick, it sounds like physical evolution can lead to a
non-physical state which seems to me to be
self-contradictory.
Dean
Tempus optimus doctor est.
Male, omnes discipulos semper interficit.
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (71 of 83), Read 32 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 06:15 PM
Certainly the Overmind was non-physical relative to, say,
clog-dancing or playing the accordion, but did the book
actually say that it was some kind of spiritual being, or did
the description just kind of drift off into non-specific 'mental
energy/pure intellect' areas at least by implication? To me,
the former description implies a religious angle, the latter
merely an unknown process which may or may not involve
the physical, perhaps at a level not yet understood. Occam's
Razor would, on that basis, tend us toward the (unknown)
physical process solution.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to mow your
own lawn." -- Dick Haggart
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (72 of 83), Read 29 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 07:29 PM
Well, if the Overmind is coming, count me out.
Ruth
"Nobody belongs to us, except in memory." John Updike
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (73 of 83), Read 28 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 08:20 PM
Geezers need not apply, Ruth. But you'll have plenty of us
around for company.
Which reminds me of one of the odder prognostications in
Childhood's End --namely, that the adults, when finally
confronted with the loss of their children and the end of the
species would choose to exit in a flash of nuclear fire, rather
than expiring of old age or perhaps taking a pill. Kind of an
act of nuclear vandalism, which I thought reflected both the
horrified fascination people had with nuclear explosions in
those days as well as demonstrating how far from
"environmentally sound" the world of 1953 was. While
humanity was done for, it wasn't clear (at that juncture)
that the rest of the planet was doomed as well, so the
choice of something messy and radioactive as an exit line
seemed, well, odd to me.
I'm trying to remember here, so please help me out: was
there any reference in the book to living things other than
(a) humans and(b) aliens of one stripe or another? While I
scanned some parts rather hurriedly, I can't remember a
single critter that didn't arrive from outer space. Another
small point, but the lack of such homey touches made the
story kind of barren to me. I always like a dog or a cat in a
story.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to mow your
own lawn." -- Dick Haggart
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (74 of 83), Read 11 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Edward Houghton eddh@pacbell.net
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 11:08 PM
DICK
No animal?
The dog's name was Fey. He belonged to the boy, Jeff. Jeff's
transformation is seen through the eyes of Fey.
"...And Fey would sit watching, looking up at him with
tragic puzzled eyes, wondering where her master had
gone and when he would return to her."
and later when Jeff is boarding the ship supplied by the
Overlords, the reactions of Fey are used to amplify the
story.
"...The great doors began to close. And in that moment
Fey lifted up her muzzle and gave a low desolate moan.
She turned her beautiful eyes toward George, and he
knew she had lost her master. He had no rival now."
EDD
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (75 of 83), Read 29 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 08:22 PM
Oh, boy. Now I really am confused. I thought the Overmind
had been assimilating the minds of various civilizations
throughout the galaxies for eons. It was just Earth's turn.
I also saw the Overmind as a purely spiritual entity, but
didn't it 'suck up' the children's bodies at the end?
I think its pretty obvious that I haven't read a lot of
sci-fi..not that I'm against sci-fi, but I think I'm trying to
logically reason out something that's not logical.
Beej
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (76 of 83), Read 31 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 08:24 PM
Dick, Jeffrey did have a dog...
Beej
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (77 of 83), Read 26 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 09:26 PM
Dont' forget the African animals, let alone that poor
elephant. Oh, and the undersea stuff.
Was that a nuclear explosion, Dick? I thought it was the
volcano blasting off. But I admit, by that point I was
skimming.
Ruth
"Nobody belongs to us, except in memory." John Updike
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (78 of 83), Read 26 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Pres Lancaster plancast@neteze.com
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 09:30 PM
DICK says:
"I think I saw it more as a version of physical evolution
than of purely religious transfiguration."
That's the way I remember it. Think of the story in terms of
"What is the future of the human race?" Posit that Clarke
wants to (a) answer the question in something less than
the evolutionary time-frame we know, and (b)doesn't want
the answer to be religious. Ergo: it is our manifest,
built-into-our-genes destiny, to reach the Overmind state,
which is a part of the physical, galaxy-ridden universe we
have overlooked until now (then) and won't discover until
the Overlords hand us the keys.
Why do you think American capitalism is investing so much
money in bio-technology ?
FOR CANDY: By way of an answer to your question about
my take on religion : I don't have any. I think it is good that
religion (generic) serves so many people in dealing with our
day-to-day world. I think it is bad when a religion wants to
drag me kicking and screaming and tithe paying before the
Lord. I think no religion possesses absolute truth, since
religions are a human construct, not a divine construct. I
think the ending of Childhood's End is a cop-out because
the answer - the future of the human race - is provided by a
god-in-the-machine, a solution that is an authorial construct,
only acceptable if you swallow the fictions leading to it.
Which is not to say that I don't sometimes enjoy the fictions.
But I prefer the blur in my vision to be rheum rather than
wool.
Whew.
pres
delicate things on feet and wings
Are all worn out.
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (79 of 83), Read 31 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Jane Niemeier jniemeie@hotmail.com
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 09:31 PM
Beej,
I got the impression that the children's bodies were
transformed to pure energy and then the energy was
sucked up by the Overmind. It (the Overmind) seems like a
greedy sort of god.
Jane
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (80 of 83), Read 31 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Beej Connor connorva@mindspring.com
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 09:45 PM
Oh! Okay..thanks Jane. I don't know why I am having such
difficulty with this book.
I really had the impression the Overmind needed to do this
to survive. Maybe that's why he was so greedy.
Beej
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (81 of 83), Read 24 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 10:33 PM
Thanks for the update on the animals; must have skimmed
that part. And, I think it was an atomic explosion --
something about two pieces of uranium coming together
and the 'island rising to meet the sky'. Sort of a 'The dawn
came up like thunder' touch there.
For some reason, I'm signing on and missing a substantial
number of intervening posts -- what shows as 'new' is in
fact only the tip of the ice-berg. Sorry if I've missed
responding or reacting to a post, but for whatever reason
I'm not seeing all the new posts.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to mow your
own lawn." -- Dick Haggart
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (82 of 83), Read 26 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dean Denis dddenis@telus.net
Date:
Tuesday, August 14, 2001 10:37 PM
Well said, pres. I found the fictional preparation for the
climax contrived and self-contradictory. A.C. seems to be
pandering to the desire in humans to be considered special.
Either that or he really believes that even though we may
meet ET's we're the "chosen" ones. This is more
wishful-thinking-fiction than science-fiction.
If he is trying to indicate some ideal future, he misses the
mark as far as I'm concerned. The loss of individuality which
he describes makes the prospect of apotheosis very
unappealing. I'm with Ruth.
If the Overmind is non-physical then it cannot interact with
the physical. This implies that there is something in humans
which is non-physical. This is another thing which humans
like to hear. They like it so much that many fail to see the
contradiction.
Dean
Tempus optimus doctor est.
Male, omnes discipulos semper interficit.
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (83 of 83), Read 5 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Candy Minx
Date:
Wednesday, August 15, 2001 06:46 AM
Interesting Pres. Thanks for your time. Are you saying you
don't tithe PERIOD! I'm shocked. Not even ten percent in a
non-religious motivation? What's the world coming to, oh
right hell in a hand basket. heh heh. go on share ten
percent you can do it! Not for god, but for fun!!!!! Trust me it
is super fun!
Um, I thought that this was a observation of how the mind
works in our culture. For better or for worse. Sure lots of
people aren't into god, but the SAME function exists for
other passions. some people manifest these functions via
their belief in the trendy "creation myth" we all call science.
And a heck of a lot of people believe in art. I thought this
novel was a kind of evaluation of our cultures attitude. I
think Dean hit on something or someone did, that idea "it's
in our genes".
I relate this to EO> Wilson...he is a gene pioneer and he
pretty much says all our behaviour can be traced to genes.
Wilson rejects religion because it is "unscientific".I felt this
novel was emulating that kind of explanation, that much of
our behaviour was from genes---ish, okay? What I found
interesting about it is that it seems to hint that even an
attitude to adopting religion or treating ascience or anything
new within a matrix of religiouslike fervor was in "in our
genes" or "destiny" and the concept of "chosen" can be a
metaphor for "genes". And I always think it's funny that EO.
Eilson, the great naturalist and science brain has never
come up with the idea that religion might be "in our genes"
he says there is a gene for everything, why not a gene for
religious passion. Even after god died(heh you know what I
mean) we tend to approach our activities and life and our
belief in science or literature or spouse(look at all those self
help books for marriage!) as our new religions.
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (84 of 88), Read 36 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse wk4@qwest.net
Date:
Wednesday, August 15, 2001 02:43 PM
My take, Dick, was that the Overmind was not spiritual (in
the sense that I use the term anyway) but rather that
"non-specific 'mental energy/pure intellect'" deal you refer
to. Either way though, why do you leap to the conclusion
that the Overmind could not have played the accordion if it
were so inclined?
Steve
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (85 of 88), Read 35 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Dick Haggart
Date:
Wednesday, August 15, 2001 03:58 PM
Fat fingers, my friend, fat fingers. They've been the curse of
the Haggart family, too.
Dick
"you have to sing your own song in the end." -- John
Updike
"which is fine, so long as you don't have to mow your
own lawn." -- Dick Haggart
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (86 of 88), Read 38 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Steve Warbasse wk4@qwest.net
Date:
Wednesday, August 15, 2001 04:10 PM
Ah, I see. I myself leaped to the conclusion that if it were so
inclined, the Overmind could simply suck the concept of an
accordion into its mind and rip off a perfect rendition of
"Lady of Spain," fat fingers or no and without even
practicing.
Steve
TOP |
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (87 of 88), Read 34 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
R Bavetta rbavetta@prodigy.net
Date:
Wednesday, August 15, 2001 04:43 PM
This Overmind business sounds a little like the Jungian
collective unconscious, taken to the extreme.
Ruth
"Nobody belongs to us, except in memory." John Updike
Topic:
Childhood's End: Arthur C. Clarke (88 of 88), Read 29 times
Conf:
Reading List
From:
Pres Lancaster plancast@neteze.com
Date:
Wednesday, August 15, 2001 09:40 PM
DANIEL nominated CE for this reading. CRs, looking to
fellow members for new (or loved familiar) reading
experience, chose it. I was particularly interested in the
choice because I had read the book, remembered it fondly
over a period of years, and wondered what it would seem
like today. If I had known that it was DANIEL'S choice, I
would have been even more interested, because I
appreciate the way his mind and personality, and
particularly his enthusiasm, works.
I don't think it was unfortunate that the book came to stand
for a genre in the discussion that grew out of it. For myself,
the discussion churned up a mess of ideas. I still wonder if
there isn't perhaps a legitimate consensus as to what
"literary" means or if any and every usage will always be
subjective - and meaningless.
P.S. Note, CE has not yet been nominated for Classic
Corner. (How does any book make it over there ?)
pres, (my genre is mine mine mine!)
delicate things on feet and wings
Are busy finding work to do.
|
Arthur C. Clarke
|
